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Charge Controllers and Clippers => The "Classic" charge controller => Topic started by: binkino on September 24, 2017, 02:26:04 PM

Title: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on September 24, 2017, 02:26:04 PM
Some time ago, I was asking if it would be possible, to make an expansion for the classic, to get more "AUX" in-/output


Now - just an idea ... ;)


In cinema, we use the JNior Box to switch things like audience room light, curtain, and so on
If you need more then the 8 GPIO of the show-server, you prefer to use one of these.

One of our JNior (310) wasn't working reliable and I replaced it last week and I have it now for playing with it at home ;)
It's a really nice thing! After updating the firmware, looks like working again.

The 310 has 8 relays for output and 8 digital input (on/off, not analogue)

The JNior also uses MODBUS, has Serial and LAN RJ45


Is it possible to expand Classic's firmware (and the LA) to communicate with the JNior and use its I/O?
Like the AUX ... :)

In my case, I would only need the outputs with the Classic.
In the JNior itself you can write makros, (Web GUI, but Java rubbish) so say input 1 and input 3 are active, close relay 5. Also set how long it is closed, set also to manually reset after an "alarm" and so on.
And there is also an Androd/iOS app, to direct view/control the in/outputs


Have played with it via telnet, just very easy commands:
c1 = close relais 1
o1 = open relais 1 (again)
c1p = pulse relais 1 (you can set the time for the switch is closed and opens again)
r = reset, open all relais
and many more commands ...




If someone is interesting in it, here a link:
http://www.integpg.com/
Communication: http://www.integpg.com/software/communication-protocols/
QuoteThe JNIOR supports a variety of communication protocols including TCP/IP, Modbus/TCP, serial and OPC for integrating the JNIOR controller and I/O with other applications.
Manuals: http://www.integpg.com/support/manuals/

Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: boB on September 24, 2017, 10:57:02 PM

I suppose that the JNIOR might work but I could not find any information on the I/O capabilities when going
to their web site.

You would need to have a controller that could take get information from the Classic and then
turn on and off the output ports of the JNIOR and/or poll the inputs of the JNIOR and
control the Classic from that information...  i.e. a server computer of some sort, unless the JNIOR
has this kind of programability.  I suspect that a Raspberri Pi might be a controller to do the job.

boB
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: WillEert on September 25, 2017, 11:44:22 AM
Or an Arduino  :)

Will
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: boB on September 25, 2017, 05:23:20 PM
Quote from: WillEert on September 25, 2017, 11:44:22 AM
Or an Arduino  :)

Will

Will...  Isn't an "Arduino"  just an AVR chip from Atmel ?

boB
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on September 25, 2017, 05:40:48 PM
If you all are interested, I designed the thing (i.e. the JNIOR). Oh, and you really need to get a Series 4 because it kicks the Lama's @^#!
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on September 25, 2017, 05:59:04 PM
But seriously, The series 4 runs an OS that I have written from scratch (JANOS).

The Series 3 runs on an old Dallas Semiconductor (now Maxim/IC) DS400 controller. This was an 8-bit 8051 derivative beefed up to be sold as an embedded JVM. Consequently the JniorOS that operates the Series 3 is written in Java and runs like a pig. That is mostly because whoever wrote the JVM didn't have a clue how to write a reasonable memory manager.

The Series 4 runs a Renesas RX600 series processor (RX63N) which in comparison is 32-bit and runs at 96 MHz. JANOS is written in C and there is no 3rd-party code in the entire thing. It doesn't even use the Renesas C Library. The performance improvement is easily over 200X. Applications are still written in Java but I wrote the JVM to run JAR files right out of Netbeans. The Series 3 required some weird converter. The JANOS memory manager rocks. Even though the managed language requires garbage collection you can damn well come close to real time program control.

So if any of you are bored and want to find out anything about the JNIOR (either the 310, 312 or 314 or the 410, 412, 414) you can ask me about it. If you are interested in the Cinema application or others (you can find the JNIOR running the doors for people movers in the Atlanta airport for instance), I can hook you up with the applications engineer, Kevin. Obviously I had nothing better to do this evening but to find you guys.

You can beat us up directly as we (Kevin and I) just started running our own forum at http://jnior.com (http://jnior.com). Now that's real new so you'll need the balls to be the first to join. But, honestly, show any other forum where you can communicate with THE designers of any product that you might use.

Oh, and as to solar... this is my backyard http://www.cloutieronline.com (http://www.cloutieronline.com).  ;)
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: dbcollen on September 25, 2017, 08:17:36 PM
Quote from: bscloutier on September 25, 2017, 05:59:04 PM
But, honestly, show any other forum where you can communicate with THE designers of any product that you might use

This one  ;D
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on September 25, 2017, 09:31:29 PM
@boB:
was just an idea  ;)
No I am building a little web server for the datas, let's see where the way leads me,
may be it will be possible, to use the datas to remote the JNior :)



@dbcollen:
I'm speechless  ;)

The series 3 is not so bad, if you don't want to use the Java web gui :D
For our cinema use, it only has to switch its relays ... controlled by the Doremi server.

The JNior was running now for about 6 years
And I have no access to a Serie 4 for private use ;)
The 310 will work for me at home.


btw. I installed the Android App - just wanted to contact INTEG, if there will be a newer version, with some more features?



Thanks for the forum link, have forwarded to our external technician, he is a real guru, this can be interesting for him


I like the content and design of your solar webseite, too.
That is something my Solar website will has to go, like this, like it.
Let's see. Just started with the help of welmore
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on September 25, 2017, 09:42:32 PM
I've been operating this 20KW PV installation now for 5 years. Actually the two of us (Kevin and I) developed the monitoring for it. I've got data for every 10 seconds of sunshine for over 5 years. This system covers what the house uses and enough more to offset any natural gas expense. We heat and cool with a geothermal system and so I have also given up fossil fueled heating. Electric bills have been $0.00. I have thank Pennsylvania in forcing the power company to provide essentially free energy storage.

BTW, I have a JNIOR that can collect the monitoring data off the SMA inverter's RS485 network. But its a PC that runs the collection and handles the MySQL database.

You might think that I popped in here to sell JNIORs but really we are enthusiastic about what we have built and are driven to share. Our support is free and we often develop or at least initially implement applications without charge. So the offer of access to us is really worth something. Although, we are not all that excited about the Series 3. It's not just a cinema product and we would be happy to help anyone with anything.

There is a Series 4 on the open network allowing us to test its security and ability to withstand attacks. An application runs on it that maps the locations of hosts attempting to login and failing. The map is available as http://honeypot.integpg.com/map.php (http://honeypot.integpg.com/map.php). You wouldn't stick your Raspberry Pi out on the Internet and expect it to survive very long would you?

Anyway, let us know if we can help you learn that Series 3. What is it a 310? There are actually a lot 312s out in cinemas so it could be a 12. 
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: welmore on September 25, 2017, 11:48:02 PM
The program you are reviewing could be modified to talk to the other device.  It reads the Classics, can follow whatever logic you need and then talks to the JNIOR via LAN based Modbus.

What are you interested in monitoring and controlling?
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on September 26, 2017, 08:37:48 PM
a thought - I was thinking about this today :)

Somewhere in the net I read about adding commands in a php (?) page sending commands to the JNior.
A script was running in the background, to keep the communication to the JNior, and then sending the commands.
We could combine states of the datas, they are displayed in the page, "IF THEN OR NOT" variables (we used to say haha)  to execute the commands.
(but keeping in mind, the security factor. I would open all doors to my LAN, wouldn't I?)
But first, I finish my version of the webpage ;)

This will also be a exciting project, to have JNior for this purpose ;)


@bscloutier:
thank you for the offer, appreciate this,
and don't worry, I did not think you want to sell me one,
one problem are my not so great English skills and write all things like I would like to. And google translation helps with most words, but not in full phrases / sentences.

It is a 310 with 8 in and 8 out
But we also have a 312 with 4 inputs, 12 outputs in another cinema room

The map is interesting, no attacks from Germany ;)

Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: boB on September 27, 2017, 12:29:59 AM

bscloutier, good to see another embedded geek on our little forum !

I was trying to find information on your JNIOR's  I/O capabilities.

Is there a URL you could point me to for that ?  Your series 4 device maybe ?

The Lama's a** ?  Sounds kinda like Winamp !

Thanks,
boB
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on September 27, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
So the 310 is a prior generation of the JNIOR designed c2003. Yes, it has 8 relay outputs. Those are 1A small signal relays, dry contact. You need to be careful with inductive loads (add a diode). There are 8 inputs. Those are isolated and you pretty much just need to put enough voltage on them to drive the isolator's LED. Those are protected against over voltage. The input impedance is about 1200 Ohms.

The 312 just has 12 relays and 4 inputs. The 314 goes the other way with 12 inputs and only 4 relays. We also have expansion modules to add power relays (10A) off that Sensor Port as well as simple analog (10V and 4-20ma) functions. Also there are temperature and environmental sensors for that.

The current Series 4 is the same but the model numbers are 410, 412 and 414.

However, you can only do PHP and handle dynamic communication on the web side with the Series 4. To be honest the 410 is so much better that even we cringe when we need to support the Series 3. It is no longer being manufactured.

I am hoping to get a JNIOR monitoring someone's Classic. I'll then post the code for that. But I might be able to supply you with a 410 if you are interested in refining the application. You can private message on that thought.

If you have questions about using the JNIOR, think about joining the forum that Kevin and I have just set up at http://jnior.com (http://jnior.com). It bypasses INTEG customer support creating a direct connection between a technical user and the developers. You know, to support the outside of the box stuff (e.g. not cinema). Maybe we could do that some in here if the JNIOR were to have its own area. :)

@boB
Sadly our documentation sucks. There is some but it isn't easy to find. Part of it is because we ship mostly in bulk to OEMs who don't need the docs or fancy retail packaging. The best way to find out anything it to ask us. I've been trying to fix all that but... Anyway, I have a few YouTube videos that may or may not help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXUEyeGtQRo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXUEyeGtQRo) if I copied that right.
You can join the above mentioned forum and ask Kevin and I anything and everything.

Not for nothing but I can share technical details on everything. We can fix bugs when identified and replicated in hours. We can even take a great idea for the OS and implement it same day. Um... but you need to have a Series 4.

Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: mike90045 on September 27, 2017, 11:39:38 PM
Quote from: bscloutier on September 27, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
..... Those are 1A small signal relays, dry contact. You need to be careful with inductive loads (add a diode). .......

Not sure what you are saying.  If you connect an inductive load to relay contacts, you think you need a back EMF diode ?
Those are contacts, they don't get into the control board anywhere.   I would be concerned about the relay driver coil, it WOULD need a back EMF diode, because that circuit is wired to a transistor that drives the coil.

Electric door strike electromagnet
https://progeny.co.uk/back-emf-suppression/

relay coil  ( 1N4007 )
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/110574/how-to-choose-a-flyback-diode-for-a-relay

Complex usage (DC motor)
https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/techzone/2016/dec/how-to-power-and-control-brushless-dc-motors
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on September 28, 2017, 08:20:55 AM
Quote from: mike90045 on September 27, 2017, 11:39:38 PM
Not sure what you are saying.  If you connect an inductive load to relay contacts, you think you need a back EMF diode ?
Those are contacts, they don't get into the control board anywhere.   I would be concerned about the relay driver coil, it WOULD need a back EMF diode, because that circuit is wired to a transistor that drives the coil.

Correct. These are tiny relay contacts isolated from the JNIOR electronics and unlike the Power 4ROUT expansion board there are no snubbers included. A lot of people use the small signal relay to engage a larger contactor. The arc that occurs when the circuit opens will eventually cause our relay to fail. So you should include a diode to handle the back EMF.

For those confused by this let me try to explain. If you are going to control an external relay with the JNIOR (or any small signal relay in any device) you connect your voltage source through the JNIOR's relay and then to the coil of the external relay eventually then to GND. The JNIOR closes its output and current flows. The current through the external relay's coil generates a large magnetic field which then physically yanks on the contacts of that device making it do its thing.

A lot of energy is stored in that magnetic field. When you interrupt the circuit as the JNIOR opens its little relay that magnetic field begins to collapse. That is good because you now want the external relay to open as well. That external coil is a huge inductor and the magnetic field in response generates a large voltage across the coil working to keep the current flowing. Well it can't because you have broken the circuit.  Eventually that voltage becomes thousands of volts and the air between the JNIOR's relay contacts breaks down. The electrons arc across the gap. The violence of the event slowly destroys the relay contacts.

To be real simplistic... Coils work to maintain constant current. Capacitors work to maintain constant voltage. Coils (inductors) use voltage to maintain the current. Capacitors use current to maintain voltage. And, resistors are just a drag.

It'll work for a while. But if you are installing something that you want to last 10 years or so, it won't. The JNIORs are used to control the doors on the people movers in the Atlanta airport and we found out that their service personal had been replacing our surface mount relays as they failed. It was happening a lot. We suggested they install diodes. We haven't heard of any issue since.

So the diode goes across the external relay's coil in a way that allows the current to continue flowing as the energy stored in the magnetic field decays. This prevents the high voltage (back EMF) and protects the controllers relay contacts.

Sorry for the attempted explanation. Relays seem so simple to most of us that these things often are passed over.

There is no diode built into the JNIOR because we don't really know how the relay will be employed. An internal diode would cause issues in some applications. On the power relay module there is a bidirectional snubber that can be thought of as two back to back diodes that pass current only at high voltages (but less than the breakdown voltage of the air gap). I would have those in the JNIOR but they are about the same size as the relay and there isn't the space. Obviously with a 10A relay you can generate some serious arcs and the protection is an absolute requirement.

The Series 4 JNIOR relays eventually went to 2A. If you have an older one it may still have the 1A relays in it. Omron relays were 1A. We now use TE Connectivity relays at 2A.

If you don't know if something is inductive you can enable it by holding one of the wires against your battery source. Watch carefully when you disconnect the wire. If you see an arc then you need to protect the relay contacts with a diode. You can add the diode and confirm that the arc is gone.

Hopefully I made some sense.
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: australsolarier on September 28, 2017, 05:00:08 PM
i always add a snubber diode no matter what. they are dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on September 28, 2017, 09:04:17 PM
Some (automotive) relays have them built-in which is nice.
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on October 07, 2017, 04:12:12 PM
Hi,

now i am working on the web page for monitoring the Classics and displaying it in a graphic way.
I make success step by step ;) but still not even finished :D


Next will be, displaying the AUX states, so I was thinking "hey why not include the JNIOR310 now" but I can't get it running.
"I am standing in front of the forrest and see only trees" like we use to say ;)


I was thinking, I can use the command line and write scripts, they will be executed with a link
(some years ago, my first "media player" GUI was a simple html web page, the links lead to simple playlist scripts, starting VLC and the movies. okay I had to disable some security things hehe but it was standalone and worked some years for me) in this list. But this doesn't work now with this.
Because in the script, I must log in, send commands, and I don't know further.
I could use the JNIOR's Java page, but thats too huge for i.e. mobile and on some computers, I don't want to install Java for this reason only.  Also I wouldn't be able to include the JNIOR android app in the web page :D
But something simple like this APK for a web server would be great to have! ;)
(possible include this page with an iframe or similar)
Configuration can be made on the Java page on one computer, that is not a problem. You do in once and sometime for a change...


Is there a simple "DAU way" for me, to do this?

If it is a standalone page, and I include it like with an iframe, it would ne independend from the php part



In my 2 Classic I have each 2 AUX, one is for the WBJR (shunt), one switches on the fan for the fork lift batteries while charging, the other 2 AUX are for manipulating the inverter (it is a good but dumb device, but makes interruptless switching from grid to battery) and I need 1 or 2 more AUX, so the JNIOR comes into the game.


Thanks ;)



At the moment I am working on a web page, will be somehow like "LCARS" (Star Trek) and the next version with gauges (here I am actualy also stuck with combining the code of the gauges with the existing php (or we need something else for a base), so just finish one project first, then the next)
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on October 07, 2017, 05:22:44 PM
@binkino

So your first real issue is that you have a Series 3 JNIOR.  :( The current JNIOR line is the Series 4 and while they are almost a drop-in for standard applications (cinema for instance) they take a much improved approach to programming and management.

In either case you reach the command line through the RS-232 (COM) port (the one at the bottom next to the LAN port) with a serial connection. That's 115.2 Kbaud, 8 bits, 1 stop, no parity and no handshaking. We use USB-to-Serial adapters successfully. You can also get to the command line if the JNIOR shows up on the network with a Telnet connection. You can download the Support Tool from the INTEG site. That is a Windows application that will show the JNOR in its Beacon tab even if it is not properly configured for the network subnet. You can set your network configuration through that (when in doubt - right click).

The default administrator account is 'jnior' with password 'jnior'. There is a secondary administrator account 'admin' password 'admin'. Most of the Series 3 implementations are physically secure and therefore are often left with default passwords.

The WebServer function will serve regular web pages and does not have to use the Java applets. We no longer use Java on the web side for the Series 4. The Series 4 has a great web interface implemented using dynamic HTML and server-side PHP-like scripting. That does work on your phone. You can create really nice web pages on that product series.

With the Series 3 you can control everything but you need to use the JNIOR Protocol on port 9200. That is a binary protocol. We can get you the spec. In the software parlance that protocol has been deprecated. With the Series 4 we use a Websockets interface. That works through the same port as the Webserver and gives you a lot more capability. Instead of binary it is JSON based and is therefore human readable.

To program a Series 3 you would write some Java in say Netbeans. You then have to run the program files through a "converter" that creates a .TINI or .JNIOR program file that will execute. With the Series 4 I punted that approach. You now write the Java program against a runtime library JanosClasses.jar which you can get from the JNIOR itself. The .JAR files created by your compiler will run directly on the Series 4. No conversion or magic wand is needed. We do have programming instructions and tools available for the Series 3 that we can supply (might be on the website). That is, if you want to go that way.

Honestly, we cringe here in the office when we need to support Series 3 programming. We are all spoiled by the Series 4. So to do the fun stuff you want, you would be much better off with the new stuff. I don't want to trash our own legacy products too much as there are thousands and thousands of them out there getting the job done everyday. All I can tell you is that when we were given the chance to revise it, we did it right.

We will also support anyone pretty much for free who is implementing a JNIOR whether it is new, used, stolen or otherwise. We can help you put that Series 3 to use but first consider tracking down a Series 4 (410, 412, 414 or soon 412DMX). The 412DMX will control DMX lighting fixtures. You can also do DMX with a 410 and an adapter. Not that you are a DJ or anything. A lot of theaters are using DMX to control house lighting.

The Series 4 performs some 200X+ faster than a Series 3. That Series 3 takes a couple of minutes to fully boot. The Series 4 boots in 3 seconds.

uh... So the Series 3 is not recommended for new applications.

Bruce

Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on October 07, 2017, 06:38:01 PM
Thanks, Bruce

Yes I used Telnet CLI (I forgot to write it above)


I appreciate it, if someone is honest with his products ;)


But I actually have no way to get a JNIOR4 and buying one is out of my budget at the moment ;)
I was thinking: hups now I have one, let's play with it and see, if it is possible to use/integrate it

But I will ask my friend of the cinema technicians, if a JNIOR4 is left for small money somehow...


I am a "dumb" in writing programs today; stopped after c64 and on Amiga I did not much more,
after that, I was happy Windos was running and now to much time has gone past and no time to start with something too complex) So I rely on others help
So after XP I am working on Linux Mint and sratching only on the surface, but your find for the most problems the infos in the web.
So also with the PIs ... at least, it works haha - somehow :D


I tried to have a script, that first opens the Telnet, log in, and then loads a text file, that has the next commands
(this way works for my FTP shortcuts on the Windos computer at work, to upload content or KDMs (digital keyfiles for the DCP cinema movies, and so on) to upload the content of a folder to all cinema servers (Doremi) via FTP
But it didn't work here as expected :D

The Doremi do establish a connection that stays connected, and then on event send the commands from a makro ("close relay #1 for 500ms" for example)


okay but if this is a "dead end road" for me, let's try other options ;)


Andy
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on October 08, 2017, 09:23:21 AM
@binkino

Honestly we've been trying to figure out how to provide an incentive for customers (theaters for instance) to upgrade their Series 3 to a Series 4. Obviously the upgrades would bring revenue and I would expect that some people in the company think about that. From my perspective and that of the other engineers the Series 4 really represents what we wanted the product to be. The Series 4 (and we sometimes just say 410 implying the other models in the series as well) was developed from scratch. In fact, I solely am responsible for it from schematic, board layout, enclosure all the way including the firmware (the operating system we named JANOS). Whereas the 310 (and that series) came together differently and it was something I more or less inherited.

Now it is about putting our best foot forward. A lot of people are aware of "the JNIOR" and what the JNIOR can do. But, generally they are referring to the 310 and that makes me shudder a bit. Again, I need to point out that the Series 3 is a workhorse and has been reliable. It is a successful product. And, I fully understand the "if it is not broke, don't fix it" thinking.

Some theater chains have begun to replace their 310s with the 410. That ends up spilling a lot of 310s onto the market. Perhaps that is how you got yours. So people are trying to apply them to new applications. You certainly can and we are willing to help. It's just not the ideal version of the toy. The 410 is designed to be applied to a wide variety of things whereas the 310 has limitations and forces you to kludge a bit (like use Java applets on the web side).

The 310 uses the applets by the way because you can control the unit through the web interface. It has to open that binary connection to the 9200 port. Only an applet or PC application can do that. Now the applets are frowned upon and most browsers refuse to run them.

The JNIOR Protocol is the only way to control the 310. Well, you can open a Telnet connection to the command line and use the JRMON command to toggle relays. Some macros are implemented that way.

Anyway, let's see if we can't get you up and running with that 310 (or is it a 312 with 12 relay outputs?).

Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on October 08, 2017, 11:14:33 AM
That is development, next device is better then the one before (so it should be)
Experiences flow in the project, new ideas, etc. no problem ;)
It is what it is, and it is working fine all the time
It has done good service for us.

I have the 310 with 8i/8o
JNR-100-003B
and it is from our cinema #1,

While installed, in the last month it wasn't switching all outputs in the first show. And at last it didn't switch in any show anymore.

First, I guessed, some failure with the wiring, but it was all ok. Also changed the network switch/hub, cables, but the LED on the JNIOR were blinking on the LAN connector, so datas were send / traffic was there. But it did not execute.
Sometimes it switched the curtains, but not the upper lights in the cinema room, and so on.
So I rewired everything to the GPIO of the Doremi, as there were 4 I/O not longer connected, which were used before for the ROPA and CP500 (Dolby sound processor), DA-20 box, ... that all does not longer exist. I changed the makros in the Doremi and it worked, like nothing changed ;)

I took the 310 to my home and played with it.
After setting it up to my home network, it was running by command line in Telnet. No problems? okay ...
But then, while playing with it a time, I suddenly had no more answer in the Telnet for some minutes = so I think, this is kind of what happened in the cinema?
So then I updated the firmware in the 310 with your 'Support Tool' - that took some patient time, and then it was running again for many hours. No problems, I believe it is back in race again.

The 310 was working in cinema now for about 6 years ...  That is okay in my opinion ;)

Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on October 08, 2017, 01:17:54 PM
Well this is not the place for JNIOR cinema JNIOR support. Nor am I the one for that as the cinema application and configuration is Rick's realm. What may be happening is that the battery has died. If the unit is not powered 24/7 the batteries drain faster and may only be lasting 6 years or so. The 410 by the way has a replaceable coin cell. Anyway, it probably messes with your configuration as something probably got forgotten and needed attention. There should be 3V on that battery.

The first step generally should be to call Rick in the office with any JNIOR issue. Otherwise he might sit there thinking that nothing fails. It might have saved you some of the trouble.

Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on October 08, 2017, 02:11:31 PM
oh hey thank you, good to know that there is a battery, just logical, I didn't think about a battery ...
I will check it ;)

Yes it is not 24/7 powered, we switch everything off over night.

Thank you! ;)
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on October 08, 2017, 02:48:37 PM
Unfortunately you'll need to be good with a soldering iron with the 310 and somewhat crafty to replace it. Any 3V battery will do the trick. The 310 is not in production and we don't have stock on the battery to be able to replace them.

But the battery isn't absolutely required. It maintains the clock. If it is configured to update from the network using NTP then the time should reset itself. The battery also maintains the file system outside of the /flash folder. So you lose logs and stuff like that.

When the 310 boots it loads its configuration registry from the /flash/jnior.ini file stored in flash. For cinema there should be a Run key in the registry to execute /flash/cinema.jnior. The point being that the dead battery might not have impacted the performance in the theater. But a power issue can cause headaches. Those units have <2MB of file flash.



Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on October 11, 2017, 05:28:56 PM
Thanks for the tip with checking the battery.
2.5V is not the best ... lol ... no question, why this baby didn't work anymore.
Normaly I am the first, opening devices and have a look inside haha

But I also wrote a mail to my friend technican, what he calls out a price for a 410 - so I know more where we can go with the ideas ;)
Possible he may have a used but working 410 one day for me? We will see.

We are not in hurry with it ;)

Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: bscloutier on October 12, 2017, 04:40:11 PM
@binkino

You know, I'm not sure that the 2.4V on the battery is going to cause you any problems. I believe that it can go a bit lower and still get the job done. Sometimes a power glitch or some event causes a unit to trip over itself. Some setting accidentally gets changed or something. If you had called when the unit stopped working properly we might have quickly got it back on track. Anyway, your 310 might still be usable for whatever you have in mind. I know that you will be better off with the 410 but that 310 isn't trash yet.
Title: Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
Post by: binkino on October 21, 2017, 01:09:38 PM
I think it was a combination of low battery and power glitches. We will see, if it works, I have now a plan ;-)


My first task for the JNIOR 310:


Is this possible to write this makro? ...

I want to switch the 1phase wall plug (on this I charge my car) from grid to inverter, depending the charge state of my batteries, or manually.
That is set in the Classic, switches one AUX output.

On the simple way, this is an easy thing - take 2 big relays and a switch - or a relay thats connected to the AUX output of the classic.
But there is the big problem of sparks between the relay contacts, while switching the power sorces under load.
So we need a delay.

relay 1 / relay 2
ON - OFF
OFF - OFF
OFF - ON

The JNIOR could do that, right?

Let's say, one output is ON and the other is OFF

Classic switches 12V to the AUX output, this is connected to an input of JNIOR, and it changes the state of the 2 outputs with 1-2 seconds delay between opening one relay and closing the other relay?
And if the 12v are missing on this input, it opens the now closed relay and waits 1-2 seconds and closes the first relay again?

Also, I can manually controll this with the Android app?



Thanks ;)



PS: looks like I would have to write a program ... so not my favorit ;) let's see what else I have here ...