I am trying to troubleshoot why my Kid charge controller's display is suddenly blank.
There is nothing on the display nor any LEDs lit. The system was working fine for over a year until this occurred a few days ago.
Batteries are reading 10.2V
PVs are reading 74V
Are the batteries dead? Would that impact the charge controller? Doesn't the controller pull power from the PVs for it's display and circuit power?
Hi cjessett, Welcome to the Fourm.
YES !! Your batteries ARE DEAD.
IIRC, the KID needs about 10.8 V, or so for it to boot up.
I believe that the KID will not operate only from PV input.
You could carefully try to connect the PVs directly to the battery. But be certain to use a circuit breaker between the PV + and the batteries. In good sun, this should be able to charge the batteries enough to get the KID to wake up.
If you happen to have an automotive type of charger that has the correct output voltage for your batteries, and Grid or generator power, etc, this can be a simpler to get the battery charging started, and help get the KID booted.
FWIW, Good Luck, Vic
Hi Vic,
Thanks for the quick reply.
I connected a fully charged battery reading 12.8V and am still not getting anything from the Kid.
Question: How does the Kid pull power from the battery and charge it at the same time? Maybe a dumb question, but can't current in a DC circuit only go one way?
To clarify my setup.
PV line is going into Kid. (Input terminals)
Batteries are going to output
Batteries:
3 of the same exact 12V batteries in parallel.
2/3 are dead (10.2V) and 1 is fully charged.
Entire battery system is reading 12.8V
Quote from: cjessett on July 14, 2018, 05:24:43 PM
Hi Vic,
...
I connected a fully charged battery reading 12.8V and am still not getting anything from the Kid.
Question: How does the Kid pull power from the battery and charge it at the same time? Maybe a dumb question, but can't current in a DC circuit only go one way?
To clarify my setup.
PV line is going into Kid. (Input terminals)
Batteries are going to output
Batteries:
3 of the same exact 12V batteries in parallel.
2/3 are dead (10.2V) and 1 is fully charged.
Entire battery system is reading 12.8V
Thanks cjessett for the added info.
OK low battery voltage seems to be a bad guess on my part.
There are three fuses, under plastic covers on the front of the KID controller. One of these protects the KID to battery connection. Please check to see if this (or any other) fuse is blown.
More later, Vic
Quote from: Vic on July 14, 2018, 05:48:40 PM
Quote from: cjessett on July 14, 2018, 05:24:43 PM
Hi Vic,
...
I connected a fully charged battery reading 12.8V and am still not getting anything from the Kid.
Question: How does the Kid pull power from the battery and charge it at the same time? Maybe a dumb question, but can't current in a DC circuit only go one way?
To clarify my setup.
PV line is going into Kid. (Input terminals)
Batteries are going to output
Batteries:
3 of the same exact 12V batteries in parallel.
2/3 are dead (10.2V) and 1 is fully charged.
Entire battery system is reading 12.8V
Thanks cjessett for the added info.
OK low battery voltage seems to be a bad guess on my part.
There are three fuses, under plastic covers on the front of the KID controller. One of these protects the KID to battery connection. Please check to see if this (or any other) fuse is blown.
More later, Vic
Both fuses (input and battery) are intact. There is no Load fuse as nothing is connected to the load terminals.
I also realized that these are 40amp fuses and it looks like the Kid calls for 30amp fuses.
This actually isn't my setup, it's my buddy's, so I'm not sure the reason for those 40amp fuses. Could've been negligence.
cjessett,
OK on the fuses. For now, those should be fine, as long as there is an input and output breaker or fuse. Normally fuses/breakers protect the connected cable, not devices.
Wonder if this KID is located in Lightning country, and if there have been any thunderstorms in the area, recently.
You might want to check the battery voltage at the KID terminals, or at least at the KID end of the fuse/breaker that connects to the KID battery terminals.
Others will probably have some good ideas about that to check.
Gotta go for now, Vic
Some back story on when it died.
A freezer was the bulk of the load and buddy woke up in the morning to find the charge controller dead and the load off. Unplugged freezer, flipped breaker switch off/on ,small radio turned back on. Charge controller never turned back on.
The freezer is rated at 0.95 amps.
Quote from: Vic on July 14, 2018, 06:32:36 PM
cjessett,
OK on the fuses. For now, those should be fine, as long as there is an input and output breaker or fuse. Normally fuses/breakers protect the connected cable, not devices.
Wonder if this KID is located in Lightning country, and if there have been any thunderstorms in the area, recently.
You might want to check the battery voltage at the KID terminals, or at least at the KID end of the fuse/breaker that connects to the KID battery terminals.
Others will probably have some good ideas about that to check.
Gotta go for now, Vic
No storms in the area when this occurred.
Kid battery terminal reads 12.6V
hi cjessett... a few Q's to clarify in my mind...
PV connected and reading 70+V ... is this before or after removing 10V batteries from KID?....After connecting the 12V+ battery?
OK 12+V battery connected and Kid does not respond/ boot up. Have you done a factory RESET?
I hope you have a copy of the manual... if not go to the main MidNite page and you will find a link to the manual.
More Q's later.
Without knowing the history of this system, the way the batteries are wired , how far the batteries are drawn down and how often they get a full recharge, if the batteries got watered added regulary and equalized , etc it is tough to know what happened.
From what is described it almost sounds like the two bad batteries may have been on a slow long decline until they suddenly went down far enough to turn off the Kid. The loads since they are wired directly to the battery may be able to run at a voltage much lower than the Kid. The radio went back on because it was able to run at a lower voltage input.
If parallel batteries are not wired properly they will not share the load , or the charge the same. So cells in some of the batteries can go low and slowly go lower and lower and then the battery is no good.
Also all the connections on all the Kid terminals and batteries, breakers, any terminal ends would need to be carefully examined to make sure there is no corrosion and that all connections are clean and tight .
Larry
If you have 11 volts or more at the battery terminals and the fuse is verified good the kid is broken for some reason. I would try swapping the 2 fuses and see if it's still dead.
The 40 amp fuse is proper as UL asked for breakers inline and they want the breaker to blow before the fuse. Also, a 30 amp fuse blows faster than a 30 amp breaker.
Thanks for the responses, all.
I checked out the terminals a little closer and found that the plastic cover of the battery side of the charger > battery terminal was melted and stuck on the wire. I cleaned off the melted broken plastic and refixed the wire to the terminal and the Kid came back on.
Not sure what caused the plastic bit of the terminal to melt but it seems like that disrupted the connection.
If anyone has seen something like this before or has any insight it'd be much appreciated.
Thanks
Can you post a picture?
If the terminal has been hot it could be tarnished. You will want to keep a close eye on this and make sure it doesnt continue to get hot
It could have been a loose connection - which makes high resistance , which in turn gets very hot .
It is not a bad thing to occasionally check all connections to make sure they are still tight since copper can compress and move over time. Especially after the first installation.
Larry
Just came back from winter trip and found my KID completely dead. No heating issues, no visible damage, no load, almost no PV power during winter. Weird.
I'll post after fuse check and voltage measuring.
Cjessit,
I have seen this issue before where the fuse is not tight in the fuse holder. It generates heat and makes the condition worse until it melts the fuse and or covers.
There is a fix.....first remove battery and p.v. input , be sure that there is no power to the kid. Use a small pair of needle nose pliers and very carefully gently squeeze the fuse holder socket blades a bit tighter so the fuse is a snug fit in the holder.....don't squeeze too tight...a bit at a time...get a good friction fit here.
I have not seen this issue in aKid controller but on other electrical gear that I service. It's hot hard at all to do this.
David
Ever since I've worked with large industrial fuses and watched bad contacts destroy whole panel boxes, I've always used copper or silver conductive grease on the friction fit terminals. Prevents oxide buildup and moisture issues.
Google " silver electrical contact grease "
https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html
https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/greases-and-lubricants/conductive-greases/silver-conductive-grease-8463
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=420
I have been using Ideal industries No-Alox for many years now. It's an anti oxidant marketed for joining aluminum wire to copper wire. It works wery well. I even use it on my battery terminals! It's not rated for that but I have no corrosive beard on my terminals and cables. It works as a very good lubricant for set screws on electrical terminals and they never corrode freezing the set screw in place. When changing out main panels all the cable connections larger than 10 ga. wire get no-alox , breakers and all, including the breaker stabs that join to the buss on plug in breakers such as the Square D Homeline breakers, PG&E meters and all. Never had a problem with that product. Highly recommended.....
David
So I checked and re-checked twice all wirings and fuses until I found that there is 0 power on battery input terminal. Further investigation showed that rock solid 63A breaker switched off. That could mean a short circuit that I found no signs of. Or that was just an accidental breaker activation because of bad weather, specific lunar phase, aliens, etc. False alarm I name it.
This morning KID turned off once more.
I went to see it and sound the room filled with unpleasant oily smell. DC breaker was off. Under the KID there was a puddle with some oily substance, I also see a few drops on the device casing as well. I haven't tried to turn it on 'cause I find it pretty much dangerous to use the device that leaked something.
All other devices including inverter and WBJR are working normally, battery bank have 27.2V, PV is 110V (open circuit).
I think this is the end of my KID. It seems some coil or transformer got short circuit and heated until it melted something. I won't operate the device that can cause pollution or heating damage to my house.
One of capacitors went out. Another is having significant bump. Everything inside the case is in this oily substance, but I'm not sure if it's electrolyte or something else.
Hi Nomad1,
One question; Where is the negative lead from the PVs connected?
The KID needs the PV Negative to be connected directly to the PV negative terminal in the KID, and not connected directly to the battery negative bus bar.
The KID measures current in the PV negative lead, and cannot operate properly if the PV negative is not connected to this terminal.
Please confirm this connection.
Just a thought. FWIW,
Hi Vic,
Both PV wires were connected to 20A breaker and then directly to KID. It worked perfectly for summer 2018 till the late October.
Also the resistance between PV lines and battery was checked several times as it was clearly stated in the manual to avoid this connection.
Nomad1,
It's time to turn in a trouble ticket with MidNite to get an RMA for return to have the techs at MidNite fix this.
The ruptured capacitor is part of the MPPT front end and one of the key components along with that big coil next to it. Hopefully replacing the cap will fix the problem.
This is exactly how capacitors fail. The mess can be cleaned up with rubbing alcohol. It probably is not toxic but I can't say that for sure.
I don't see other damage done in there and from the looks of it it is repairable. Even if you are out of warranty MidNite goes the extra step to keep their customers happy.
david
David
Quote from: Nomad1 on March 27, 2019, 11:39:00 AM
Hi Vic,
Both PV wires were connected to 20A breaker and then directly to KID. It worked perfectly for summer 2018 till the late October.
Also the resistance between PV lines and battery was checked several times as it was clearly stated in the manual to avoid this connection.
Hi Nomad,
Just wanted to toss out this bad guess -- forgot that this system had been a system that was working fine.
Yes, this wiring detail is clearly called-out in the manual, and perhaps even with an info sheet that ships with the KID. But, in some retrofit situations, the removed CC may have had the PV negative connected to the main negative bus bar, and, this "subtlety" can get missed ... that was all
Back to regular programming. Vic
Finally my KID is back!
Service center in Spain replaced the motherboard but gave me zero details on it. They also tried to sell me surge protector that could mean they suspect a lightning strike or something alike.
Device is working normally, generating up to 500W per hour. Also there is 2-line AUX connector instead of my old 3-line connector, so I was only able to connect WBJR and not my AUX relay. Worst thing that I can't remember my old voltage settings, end amps, load on/off settings, etc. Of course it's just a matter of time and some effort to restore them to optimal values.
P.S. On the way back from Spain my parcel faced two Easters at once - Catholic and Orthodox - among with huge span of May holidays resulting in 30+ days delivery while normally it could take a week or two.
Adding that Surge would be good protection, Midnite makes some great surge protectors...