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Charge Controllers and Clippers => The "KID" charge controller => Topic started by: sandfantom on August 10, 2018, 11:38:41 AM

Title: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: sandfantom on August 10, 2018, 11:38:41 AM
We had a pretty good storm here the other nite an as of now my KIDD will not charge. It shows battery voltage and every thing else seems normal but again no charge. I have done a factory reset and have gone through the menu and done all I know what to do.

I have 8 100 watt panels, 4 in series to 48 volts charging 24 volt batteries. I thought I had the controller grounded but in looking at the wiring I didn't.

I also have a wind generator in the system but the 20 amp breaker was flipped.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: Westbranch on August 10, 2018, 12:03:15 PM
Have you shut down in this order,?

Disconnect  PV  power, next disconnect battery,
Wait a few minutes,
Now reconnect battery, then reconnect PV..

Any change?
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: ClassicCrazy on August 10, 2018, 12:04:06 PM
Did you pull the blade  fuses out of the Kid and check those . One of them is for the PV input.
If those are okay you should check the PV input terminals with a multimeter and see if there is voltage there. If no voltage work your way back to your PV panels - if you have combiner check there and if not you can disconnect the PV and check voltage directly at the PV string . Assuming you have voltage at the PV panels and not at your Kid terminals you just have to check the wiring and any breakers or fuses in between to determine what is wrong.
If  you don't have a digital multimeter and don't want to be opening up the system then you will need to find an electrician or RE person with the skills to troubleshoot the problem.
First check those fuses on the Kid though if you haven't already .
You may also want to invest in some of the Midnight surge protectors and install in your system.
Larry
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: sandfantom on August 10, 2018, 12:55:41 PM
Westbranch:
Followed the sequence, no joy

Crazy:
Fuses are all good.
Voltage from panels at controller(unhooked): 78 volts
No voltage at controller hooked up. Sparks a little like shorting out when hooking up.
Unit is open, really don't see any burnt components.
Surge protection- Yes, I plan on doing that.
Thanks again
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: KyleM on August 10, 2018, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on August 10, 2018, 12:04:06 PM
Did you pull the blade  fuses out of the Kid and check those . One of them is for the PV input.
If those are okay you should check the PV input terminals with a multimeter and see if there is voltage there. If no voltage work your way back to your PV panels - if you have combiner check there and if not you can disconnect the PV and check voltage directly at the PV string . Assuming you have voltage at the PV panels and not at your Kid terminals you just have to check the wiring and any breakers or fuses in between to determine what is wrong.
If  you don't have a digital multimeter and don't want to be opening up the system then you will need to find an electrician or RE person with the skills to troubleshoot the problem.
First check those fuses on the Kid though if you haven't already .
You may also want to invest in some of the Midnight surge protectors and install in your system.
Larry

Larry you want a job?  That was the perfect answer for about 50% of the calls I take in a day   :D   
Kyle
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: KyleM on August 10, 2018, 01:04:00 PM
Quote from: sandfantom on August 10, 2018, 12:55:41 PM
Westbranch:
Followed the sequence, no joy

Crazy:
Fuses are all good.
Voltage from panels at controller(unhooked): 78 volts
No voltage at controller hooked up. Sparks a little like shorting out when hooking up.
Unit is open, really don't see any burnt components.
Surge protection- Yes, I plan on doing that.
Thanks again

Sounds like you took a nearby strike and the PV side of the KID was fused.
Without looking at it  I would say that is about a $125.00 repair. That would be a complete board replacement. Now if it is just a few components that need replaced the price would be less.
Best thing you can do at this time would be to submit a Support Ticket   http://www.midnitesolar.com/support.php (http://www.midnitesolar.com/support.php) and let us take a peek under the hood.

Repairs are normally between 3 and 5 business days not including shipping time.

Kyle

Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: sandfantom on August 10, 2018, 01:10:04 PM
Thanks Kyle, kindof what I thought. I will get  ticket started and try to get it to you when I can.
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: b4solar on August 24, 2018, 02:13:49 PM
Kyle. Keep up the good tech support. Much appreciatted
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: jrodrigz99 on September 08, 2018, 05:59:23 PM
I have a similar problem, my Kid does charge but it will not pull out more than 7 amps when I expect to be somewhere close to 22 amps. I have two charge controller to the same battery bank, one is a Schneider MPPT 60-150 and the other is the Kid. The Schneider is connected to 6 280W pannels connected in 3 strings of 2 panels, while the KId is connected to 12 Kyocera KC130TM connected in 3 strings of 4 panels. The Schneider is pulling out over 20 amps while from the Kid I just get 1/4 of what the Schneider is pulling out. I am expecting similar amps from both controllers but that is not happening. I took out the Schneider from the system just to see if the amps in the Kid will rise as a stand alone controller but it did not happen. What could possibly be wrong? By the way I have verified the voltages of the 3 strings at the combiner box and it was over 70 volts for each string.
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: Highflyer on September 08, 2018, 08:26:44 PM
JR99,
Just a thought, but did you try swapping out the arrays?  You could have a problem there as well.
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: ClassicCrazy on September 08, 2018, 09:07:02 PM
 jrodrigz99

Same battery charging setpoints on both controllers ?
Is the Kid in Bulk when it only puts out 7 amps ?
You could take the Kid out of the circuit and connect direct to the batteries and measure the amps - that way you would rule out any of the PV or wiring on that circuit if the charging current goes way up . You would have to do that when the batteries are low and taking full current.

Larry
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: Vic on September 09, 2018, 08:01:58 PM
Quote from: jrodrigz99 on September 08, 2018, 05:59:23 PM
I have a similar problem, my Kid does charge but it will not pull out more than 7 amps when I expect to be somewhere close to 22 amps. I have two charge controller to the same battery bank, one is a Schneider MPPT 60-150 and the other is the Kid. The Schneider is connected to 6 280W pannels connected in 3 strings of 2 panels, while the KId is connected to 12 Kyocera KC130TM connected in 3 strings of 4 panels. The Schneider is pulling out over 20 amps while from the Kid I just get 1/4 of what the Schneider is pulling out. I am expecting similar amps from both controllers but that is not happening. I took out the Schneider from the system just to see if the amps in the Kid will rise as a stand alone controller but it did not happen. What could possibly be wrong? By the way I have verified the voltages of the 3 strings at the combiner box and it was over 70 volts for each string.

Hi jrodrigz99,

OK,   assume that  you have a 48 V  battery on this system.

Highflyer and Larry have had some good recommendations for further things to do.

Often,   we need more information on the system details:

Is the battery voltage 48V?
What brand and model number of the 280  watt PVs?
What type of battery are you using,   Flooded,   AGM, etc?
Is there any shading at all on the PVs for the KID when you noticed only 7 amps or production?
Is each of the two PV arrays at the same azimuth (direction)  and elevation?

When you measure the PV voltages of each string in the Combiner,   it is a good idea to open the circuit breakers for each PV string.   This way it is clear just what the open circuit voltage of each string is   ...   you may have done this.

Thanks for any additional answers that you can provide.
Vic
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: jrodrigz99 on September 09, 2018, 09:50:45 PM
Thanks for you comments, my system consist of 8 new L16 Crown CR430 flooded batteries, 12 Kyocera KC130TM connected in 3 strings of 4 panels each and 6 Topoint 280W modules connected in 3 strings of 2 panels, a Schneider MPPT 60-150 charge controller, a Midnite Solar Kid charge controller and a Trace 6kW pure sine wave inverter.. The Topoints are wired to the Schneider and Kyoceras to the Kid. There is no shade on the panels at any given time. Azimuth for the Kyoceras is 18.5 while the Topoints are at 14, but the Kyoceras are the ones at the right angle for where I live.

I did swap the arrays for the Kid charge controller only and it worked as I was expecting from the very beggining, so I am ruling out the Kid to be defective. I do not remember the voltage but amps out of the kid were at 27.8A. Could not swap arrays for the Schneider because of cable runs.


I did measured the open voltage for each of the Kyocera strings and it was 74 volts for two of them and 73.5 for the other, variance could be to some clouds. When all three strings were connected to the Kid voltage dropped to 54V and only 8 amps were flowing from the Kid to the batteries. That makes me think the problem has to be solar panels. Will do further testings.

Any recommendations in what I should take into consideration?
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: jrodrigz99 on September 09, 2018, 09:52:21 PM
I forgot to mention my system is 48 Volts.
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: Vic on September 09, 2018, 10:37:16 PM
Hi jrodr...,

Thanks for the added info.

Personally,   IMO,   believe that your String voltages are a bit too low,  for most MPPT Charge Controllers (CC).   Strings of two of the 280s,   or four of the 130s have a rated (STC) Vmp that is too close to the battery voltage,   and generally would not allow the optimum Maximum Power Point to be used.

Each CC behaves a bit differently in this regard,   compared to each other.

Strings of three of the 280s would be better for that array,   IF your coldest temperatures will allow this configuration.   Strings of five of the Kyo 130s  would probably be fine,   and this voltage would probably not be an issue,  unless your winter temps are very cold.

YES,   the Kyo array with five per string might be difficult,   as you appear to have 12 of these PVs.

Here is a Link to the MidNite KID String Sizer,  which will help you determine the effects of the coldest temperatures,   etc,   for different string configurations:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/sizingTool_kid/index.php

Also,  with multiple CCs on a single battery,   each CC will only contribute its maximum current capability during Bulk,   or any other MPPT charge stage.   So,  if the CCs are Absorbing,   each CC may not share the current needs of the battery,   to the maximum of its capability,   for the amount of PV array power potential.
All  IMO,     Vic

Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: Vic on September 10, 2018, 03:35:02 PM
Hi again jrodr...,

Should have added,   that you might try a different charge Mode in the KID:

Try setting the Legacy O&P  Mode,  to see if that increases the amount of output current you see.

Please let us know how you are doing,   Thanks,   Vic
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: jrodrigz99 on October 16, 2018, 04:55:08 PM
Sorry for being so late with the update. Just a couple minutes ago I wired 6 new 255 W panels to the Kid (2 strings of 3 modules each) and it is working nice, even better than the Schneider. So, will wait a couple days for battery to recover and then equalize. What happened with the Kyoceras was that some panels developed what it seems to be a web of cracks or delamination, I am not sure, and voltage was right but amps were very, very low. Talked to a Kyocera representative and told me to take apart the panels that did not show any sign of problems and wire them to my system. I did, but panels behaved as bad as the one with webs, so, I am going to test each individually with a Morningstar PS-30 charge controller and a 12V battery and going to order some diodes for further testings if needed.

Thanks to all of you who gave me recommendations.
Title: Re: KIDD won't charge after storm
Post by: ClassicCrazy on October 16, 2018, 07:06:46 PM
you can take the two wires from  each individual panel  and short them together and get the Isc short circuit current. You either have to have a DC capable clamp amp meter or use a regular DMM amp meter in series in the amp setting.

Larry