I have 2 Classic 200 controllers. Classic 1 has the fast flash of he blue LED behind the grill. Classic 2 recently went to only slow flash. I switched the 2 cables and the slow flash stayed on Classic 2, so it doesn't appear to be the cable.
I didn't find anything in the manual except a statement that it's probably the cable. I didn't turn up much with search on this site.
What's next? Software reset? Hardware reset?
Thanks.
Are both Classics the same firmware version ? What version ?
Do yo have them in follow me mode ? I would think so since that is where the blue flashing LED is from.
" All Categories » CLASSIC CHARGE CONTROLLER - Features and Programming
CLASSIC - F-ME - How do I test FOLLOW-ME?
Unplug all follow-me cables. Go to Classic #1, observe the blue LED inside at the top, slow 1 second blink? Good, now loop one of the cables from the middle jack to the bottom jack of that Classic. Observe the blue LED going from 1 second to 1/10th of a second blink. If so, cable is good, Classic is good. test all cables. Then test all Classics with a known good cable. (You did SET FOLLOWME = ON Right?)
All good then follow the diagram in the manual and reconnect all cables. Slow blink, cable is bad or Classic is defective.
You only need one BTS, put that one on a single Classic and in TWEAKS set BTS-NET = MASTER
On all other Classics set BTS-NET = FOLLOW
You should now be able to read the EXACT same Battery Temperature reported on the BTS-MASTER on ALL the BTS-FOLLOW Classics."
When you search these forums you have to search from the home page where all the topics are listed otherwise you don't get any or may results.
Larry
Thanks for the help.
Both are on version 2126. They are in follow mode and have been working well since installation in summer '18.
I removed the cables and plugged one cable into both the middle and bottom jacks on Classic 1. Good short flash. The other cable there produced the same result.
I then did the same test with the middle and bottom jacks on Classic 2. Slow flash.
For BTS-NET, Classic 1 is master and Classic 2 is follow. Classic 2 does not see a temperature sensor.
My difficulty with search was too many results and none that looked relevant. "Slow" is used in many posts. "Flash" is about re-flashing chips. "Communicate" . . .
For the battery temp sensor there is a setting you need to change in the MNGP Tweaks menu that is calle BTS-NET which I think one is set up as Master and the other Classic is set as Follow.
I never paid too much attention to how often the blue led's blink - they are out in the shed.
Larry
Here is a video for setting up Follow Me
https://youtu.be/CMYH_Oa00BM
Do you still have at least ONE classic showing the fast quick flash with just ONE cable plugged in to each Classic ?
If so, take that same cable and swap the the end going into the bottom jack from the middle jack of the one classic
and the other end of the cable from the middle jack to the bottom jack.
The bottom jack (Master I think ?) has its conductors reversed compared to the middle and top phone jacks. This is so a normally
reversing phone cable (like we use) will work to communicate between Classics.
That way, you know that the cable is working. If the other classic doesn't start flashing quick/fast, then there may be something
wrong with the jack on the Classic or its associated circuitry. That is, if both Classic's F-ME is enabled.
The setting of the BTS MASTER should not affect the fast/show flashing at least but F-ME will need to be enabled for that Classic to be able to read the next classic over. That's how Follow-Me works... The Classic with the flashing blue LED reads from the classic next to it through that cable.
As soon as it reads the data, the blue LED will turn off and that's why it will normally flash quickly when successful.
Remember that once in a while, the blue LED will flash slowly because the communications will some times not read but that is OK since it will usually read the next time around. But if it ALWAYS flashes slow, it means it's not reading.
You can also check the MIDDLE phone jack for functionality by temporarily plugging the MNGP remote into the middle jack. The MNGP should power up and communicate with the Classic through that middle (slave ?) jack although the bottom two MNGP LEDs will not light up with the middle jack as it does on the top phone jack.
boB
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 12, 2019, 05:34:53 PM
Here is a video for setting up Follow Me
https://youtu.be/CMYH_Oa00BM
I watched the video again. All the settings are correct and cables are in their correct places.
Thanks.
Quote from: boB on January 12, 2019, 05:37:46 PM
Do you still have at least ONE classic showing the fast quick flash with just ONE cable plugged in to each Classic ?
If so, take that same cable and swap the the end going into the bottom jack from the middle jack of the one classic
and the other end of the cable from the middle jack to the bottom jack.
That's what I tried to describe in the first post of this thread. When I swapped cables, the error stayed in Classic 2 instead of moving with the cable.
Then ClassicCrazy suggested plugging each Classic into itself. I did this and Classic 1 still has short flashes with either of the cables. Classic 2 still has long flashes with either of the cables.
Quote from: boB on January 12, 2019, 05:37:46 PMThe bottom jack (Master I think ?) has its conductors reversed compared to the middle and top phone jacks. This is so a normally
reversing phone cable (like we use) will work to communicate between Classics.
That way, you know that the cable is working. If the other classic doesn't start flashing quick/fast, then there may be something
wrong with the jack on the Classic or its associated circuitry. That is, if both Classic's F-ME is enabled.
The setting of the BTS MASTER should not affect the fast/show flashing at least but F-ME will need to be enabled for that Classic to be able to read the next classic over. That's how Follow-Me works... The Classic with the flashing blue LED reads from the classic next to it through that cable.
As soon as it reads the data, the blue LED will turn off and that's why it will normally flash quickly when successful.
Remember that once in a while, the blue LED will flash slowly because the communications will some times not read but that is OK since it will usually read the next time around. But if it ALWAYS flashes slow, it means it's not reading.
You can also check the MIDDLE phone jack for functionality by temporarily plugging the MNGP remote into the middle jack. The MNGP should power up and communicate with the Classic through that middle (slave ?) jack although the bottom two MNGP LEDs will not light up with the middle jack as it does on the top phone jack.
boB
Follow me is ON in both classics. Follow me has been working fine since installation last summer. I last actively watched Follow-Me work on Dec 10 when I manually initiated an equalize charge.
I only mentioned the BTS because ClassicCrazy said to check it.
Through the fall I estimate I saw about 10% slow flashes on both Classics. May rise to 20% occasionally, but I've never seen 50% slow flashes. I understand that this is normal.
I just now plugged the MNGP of classic 2 into the middle jack. The MNGP starts up normally and I can change settings with the MNGP.
So far it looks like Classic 1 works perfectly and both cables work perfectly. On Classic 2, the middle jack works with the MNGP, so it looks to me like a problem with the bottom jack on Classic 2. Or software. Or something else, but I'd need more help finding it.
Thank you for helping with this.
Edit to add: I do not consider this an emergency. Both Classics are charging OK and at this time of year in this place, that is more important to me than having the communications working perfectly. I would like to fix this eventually. Thanks.
You said the second Classic was not seeing the battery temp sensor from the first Classic - did you get that working ? It has to do with the BTS settings I mentioned above. I guess not important unless you just want to use one sensor the batteries instead of two .
Larry
Great troubleshooting job ! Something to do with that bottom jack obviously.
Hopefully the actual circuitry for the bottom jack is OK and maybe it's just a bent or dirty contact on that bottom jack ?
You might try looking closely at that bottom jack and see if one of the contacts looks bent.
OR might be a bad solder joint from the bottom jack to the PCB and wiggling and pressing that bottom jack in slightly might help to see if that is the problem or not.
Either way, the fix can be as simple as swapping out the control board on that bad Classic with another one. I would call our service guys and tell them about this forum subject for reference.
boB
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 13, 2019, 11:52:17 AM
You said the second Classic was not seeing the battery temp sensor from the first Classic - did you get that working ? It has to do with the BTS settings I mentioned above. I guess not important unless you just want to use one sensor the batteries instead of two .
Larry
Is there any reason to recheck BTS on 2 if the communication is still broken?
The BTS NET has been 1 master and 2 follow. I rechecked the configuration and it's still the same.
Quote from: boB on January 13, 2019, 12:50:31 PM
Great troubleshooting job ! Something to do with that bottom jack obviously.
Hopefully the actual circuitry for the bottom jack is OK and maybe it's just a bent or dirty contact on that bottom jack ?
You might try looking closely at that bottom jack and see if one of the contacts looks bent.
OR might be a bad solder joint from the bottom jack to the PCB and wiggling and pressing that bottom jack in slightly might help to see if that is the problem or not.
Either way, the fix can be as simple as swapping out the control board on that bad Classic with another one. I would call our service guys and tell them about this forum subject for reference.
boB
I looked in the bottom jack and see only the 4 wires in their slots. Everything looks good.
I pressed on the jack different directions and waited to see if there was any change. I saw only slow flashes.
I'll call or email your folks tomorrow.
Thanks.
Quote from: DEinME on January 13, 2019, 02:56:12 PM
I looked in the bottom jack and see only the 4 wires in their slots. Everything looks good.
I pressed on the jack different directions and waited to see if there was any change. I saw only slow flashes.
I'll call or email your folks tomorrow.
Thanks.
Yeah... Sounds like that will be necessary.
Good job going as far as you did though.
boB
Where in Maine? I might be able to fix it up for you quicker out of east coast stock
Quote from: FNG on January 14, 2019, 08:21:38 AM
Where in Maine? I might be able to fix it up for you quicker out of east coast stock
I'm in Brooklin, Maine.
I just got organized enough to prepare to look for contact info for this. (Hey, it's morning and it's COLD.)
The serial number of that Classic 200 is CL51459.
Does your offer of east coast stock mean I don't have to look up a phone or email to request a board or file a claim or whatever I'm doing?
Thanks.
I was just going to offer that I am in Corinna and would have a replacement control board if you wanted to grab it vs doing an RMA and swapping it, Either way the support crew can send you just the control board so you do not need to swap the complete classic.
Ryan
Email sent.
I posted on a Saturday which seemed to me to resemble a weekend day, so no need to check much until Monday.
But I was wrong. By Monday afternoon I had an appointment to pick up a replacement control board a reasonable drive from here.
So now on Tuesday afternoon I have fast flashes on both Classics.
Now I just have to find that thread with hints about updating software with a Linux computer. The firmware versions are different by a lot (2126 on 1 vs. 2079 on 2).
Thanks all who helped with this.
Quote from: DEinME on January 15, 2019, 03:57:22 PM
I posted on a Saturday which seemed to me to resemble a weekend day, so no need to check much until Monday.
But I was wrong. By Monday afternoon I had an appointment to pick up a replacement control board a reasonable drive from here.
So now on Tuesday afternoon I have fast flashes on both Classics.
Now I just have to find that thread with hints about updating software with a Linux computer. The firmware versions are different by a lot (2126 on 1 vs. 2079 on 2).
Thanks all who helped with this.
YaY !! This is great !Upgrading with Linux I believe requires Python for the typical method, if you're fine with that.
There
SHOULD be some info on that still around.
Not a Python user. Seemed the easy way out was to exhume an old dual-boot machine with Win 7.
And the updates went well. Until . . .
I can't find a way to update the MNGPs. There's no USB jack and I can't find instructions for removing it although I suspect they're out there somewhere.
While searching for that bit of info, I found posts in "Classic won't wake up from resting" that suggest that I have to update the Classic with the MNGP still plugged in. You mean do the whole update procedure while standing there holding the classic cover in one hand and trying to scroll the cursor and tap here and there with the other?
EDIT TO ADD: If updating the MNGPs means updating the Classics again, then it's not happening soon.
Quote from: DEinME on January 16, 2019, 11:00:30 AM
Not a Python user. Seemed the easy way out was to exhume an old dual-boot machine with Win 7.
And the updates went well. Until . . .
I can't find a way to update the MNGPs. There's no USB jack and I can't find instructions for removing it although I suspect they're out there somewhere.
While searching for that bit of info, I found posts in "Classic won't wake up from resting" that suggest that I have to update the Classic with the MNGP still plugged in. You mean do the whole update procedure while standing there holding the classic cover in one hand and trying to scroll the cursor and tap here and there with the other?
EDIT TO ADD: If updating the MNGPs means updating the Classics again, then it's not happening soon.
In the Classic update tool there are two parts of the update . The first one updates the Classic . The second one done after the first one is complete updates the MNGP. They both use the same USB cable plugged into the Classic. The MNGP is plugged into the Classic and gets its update via the usb cable plugged into the classic .
So if you did the update you should see two parts to it .
After doing some of the updates you often have to reset the Classic back to factory defaults. That is why it is good to save a backup copy of your settings using the Local Status app because after the update you can then use the Local Status app to restore them . This saves having to go through all the menus on the MNGP .
Larry
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on January 16, 2019, 11:10:22 AM
Quote from: DEinME on January 16, 2019, 11:00:30 AM
Not a Python user. Seemed the easy way out was to exhume an old dual-boot machine with Win 7.
And the updates went well. Until . . .
I can't find a way to update the MNGPs. There's no USB jack and I can't find instructions for removing it although I suspect they're out there somewhere.
While searching for that bit of info, I found posts in "Classic won't wake up from resting" that suggest that I have to update the Classic with the MNGP still plugged in. You mean do the whole update procedure while standing there holding the classic cover in one hand and trying to scroll the cursor and tap here and there with the other?
EDIT TO ADD: If updating the MNGPs means updating the Classics again, then it's not happening soon.
In the Classic update tool there are two parts of the update . The first one updates the Classic . The second one done after the first one is complete updates the MNGP. They both use the same USB cable plugged into the Classic. The MNGP is plugged into the Classic and gets its update via the usb cable plugged into the classic .
So if you did the update you should see two parts to it .
After doing some of the updates you often have to reset the Classic back to factory defaults. That is why it is good to save a backup copy of your settings using the Local Status app because after the update you can then use the Local Status app to restore them . This saves having to go through all the menus on the MNGP .
Larry
The instructions say to take off the cover to get access to the USB plug. So I remove the cover, unplug the MNGP, and set the cover aside. Or should I leave the cover dangling by the phone cable?
I suspect the answer is to rig a couple of hooks hanging from the ceiling so the cover can hang there in front of the bodies of the Classics.
The instructions have zero mention of "remove the cover but don't set it aside or unplug the MNGP".
Makes me think the instructions were written by people updating Classics on a workbench instead of hanging on a wall.
I have done the reset and have re-entered all the changes and tweaks. I'm not going through this again unless there's an obvious fault between the Classics and their MNGPs.
Waiting to update the MNGP is "usually" OK... Unless there is an issue that might require newer MNGP code. It should work, typically though.
What you do to hold the front panel up while keeping the MNGP plugged into that top jack is to use ONE of the screw that holds on the cover on in one corner...
That is, IF there is space on one side of the Classic or the other for that front panel to stay during the update. We should have had a picture of this somewhere but I don't know if we do ?
Quote from: boB on January 16, 2019, 12:39:52 PM
Waiting to update the MNGP is "usually" OK... Unless there is an issue that might require newer MNGP code. It should work, typically though.
What you do to hold the front panel up while keeping the MNGP plugged into that top jack is to use ONE of the screw that holds on the cover on in one corner...
That is, IF there is space on one side of the Classic or the other for that front panel to stay during the update. We should have had a picture of this somewhere but I don't know if we do ?
That would work for one of my Classics but not the other.
I personally think the update procedure needs a statement that the MNGP should stay plugged in during the Classic update. I read that they are updated one after the other which is why, after my Classic update, I was looking for a USB jack on the MNGP.
I just leave the usb cable plugged into the Classic and hanging out all the time with the classic closed ( I have a hole in MNDC box so it can come out. )
That way whenever there is an update it is much easier . Just plug in the laptop and update .
Larry
Sounds like the instructions don't need any mention that the MNGP needs to stay attached.
Just let each new customer trip over the same issue.
EDIT:
Please excuse me. The first part of this was a great success. The last bit about the update is very frustrating. I get the impression that I "should have known" although that hasn't been said explicitly. I'd welcome anyone pointing out in the instructions how I should have known. If you post that here, I may not read it for a few days.
DEinME,
What instructions are you looking at ?
There used to be a text file that told what to do but it was probably incomplete as you are mentioning I think.
There is no USB jack on the MNGP because it was never implemented. The USB on the Classic passes through to the MNGP through that top phone jack and talks by way of RS-232 link.
There used to be some USB circuitry on some MNGP circuit boards but it was never used and has been removed from more recent MNGPs.
Quote from: DEinME on January 16, 2019, 12:19:12 PM
The instructions say to take off the cover to get access to the USB plug. So I remove the cover, unplug the MNGP, and set the cover aside. Or should I leave the cover dangling by the phone cable?
No, remove the cover, reserve 1 screw and place screw thru upper left cover hole, into chassis upper right threads. you can leave it hanging there, with 1 screw, and all cables connected and do the updates.
This has the cover offset to the right side of the chassis
Quote from: mike90045 on January 17, 2019, 02:00:48 AM
Quote from: DEinME on January 16, 2019, 12:19:12 PM
The instructions say to take off the cover to get access to the USB plug. So I remove the cover, unplug the MNGP, and set the cover aside. Or should I leave the cover dangling by the phone cable?
No, remove the cover, reserve 1 screw and place screw thru upper left cover hole, into chassis upper right threads. you can leave it hanging there, with 1 screw, and all cables connected and do the updates.
This has the cover offset to the right side of the chassis
Yes. Exactly.
OR if there is no room on the right, some other corner or maybe even upside down might work ?
I will look over some of the documentation, I know this comes up more than it probably should. Just saying "Update the MNGP" is confusing in itself, for most customers they wont know what the "MNGP" even is. I try to call it the display. Please do post a link to what you where following so I make sure to take a hard look
Quote from: boB on January 16, 2019, 05:22:35 PM
DEinME,
What instructions are you looking at ?
There used to be a text file that told what to do but it was probably incomplete as you are mentioning I think.
There is no USB jack on the MNGP because it was never implemented. The USB on the Classic passes through to the MNGP through that top phone jack and talks by way of RS-232 link.
There used to be some USB circuitry on some MNGP circuit boards but it was never used and has been removed from more recent MNGPs.
I downloaded a file called "Firmware install with Windows 7 REVB 1-17.pdf" from this site or the main Midnite site.
It seems to assume that people will remove the cover and leave it plugged in.
Quote from: mike90045 on January 17, 2019, 02:00:48 AM
Quote from: DEinME on January 16, 2019, 12:19:12 PM
The instructions say to take off the cover to get access to the USB plug. So I remove the cover, unplug the MNGP, and set the cover aside. Or should I leave the cover dangling by the phone cable?
No, remove the cover, reserve 1 screw and place screw thru upper left cover hole, into chassis upper right threads. you can leave it hanging there, with 1 screw, and all cables connected and do the updates.
This has the cover offset to the right side of the chassis
There's no room.
Off to the right of the classic is another classic. To the left is an inverter. I can understand leaving some space between components, but this is how Midnite assembled them.
Quote from: boB on January 17, 2019, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: mike90045 on January 17, 2019, 02:00:48 AM
Quote from: DEinME on January 16, 2019, 12:19:12 PM
The instructions say to take off the cover to get access to the USB plug. So I remove the cover, unplug the MNGP, and set the cover aside. Or should I leave the cover dangling by the phone cable?
No, remove the cover, reserve 1 screw and place screw thru upper left cover hole, into chassis upper right threads. you can leave it hanging there, with 1 screw, and all cables connected and do the updates.
This has the cover offset to the right side of the chassis
Yes. Exactly.
OR if there is no room on the right, some other corner or maybe even upside down might work ?
Upside down? The screw holes are not near the bottom corner. Hanging the cover upside down would overlap the circuit board by about 2/3 it's height. This might work if I used a long machine screw.
Why would I do that when there's no mention that the cover stays plugged in?
My point is not that it can't be done now that I've failed; it's that there's no instruction on how to do it correctly the first time.
Edited because I originally put my response inside the quoted messages. Your suggestion of "upside down" looks like grabbing at straws to find any way to say this is obvious. I still think the cord hanging from the ceiling will be much easier in the future than any version of putting screws back in mis-matched corners.
Quote from: FNG on January 24, 2019, 03:12:45 PM
I will look over some of the documentation, I know this comes up more than it probably should. Just saying "Update the MNGP" is confusing in itself, for most customers they wont know what the "MNGP" even is. I try to call it the display. Please do post a link to what you where following so I make sure to take a hard look
thank you.
IDK where I downloaded the instructions but the file name is "Firmware install with Windows 7 REVB 1-17.pdf".
Incomplete documentation is one subject. Scattered collections of subsets of the documentation is another.
I won't be back on this forum for another week.
I'm going to place a vote (again) for a installer that will run from a bootable, live linux CD or thumbdrive
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
https://linuxmint.com/download.php
and there are a dozen other versions that boot live and does not require the windoze 10 malware (yes win10 is hated that much)
Quote from: mike90045 on January 26, 2019, 10:10:35 AM
I'm going to place a vote (again) for a installer that will run from a bootable, live linux CD or thumbdrive
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
https://linuxmint.com/download.php
and there are a dozen other versions that boot live and does not require the windoze 10 malware (yes win10 is hated that much)
Future products will be more like this. Not bootable though because there is no disc operating system on any of these products.
The Kid is kind of like this in that it appears as a flash drive over a USB connection.
But neither of these will help an MNGP type remote that has to be connected to its host charge controller.
We are working on lots of documentation now. I hope that there are LOTS of pictures ! That would be much better than this whole thread in showing how to hang the Classic front cover with MNGP on the side of the Classic to update it.
boB
Regarding placing the MNGP in a convenient place, will try adding;
Seems that a person could use a longer cable between the Classic being updated and the MNGP during updates.
OR, place the MNGP in a convenient place (that is close enough to the Classic) permanently, by using a longer cable.
One system here has two Classics mounted about 1.5 inches apart, in an otherwise tight location. We have added wire hooks from above, that use one of the upper front cover mounting screw holes to suspend the cover/MNGP -- close enough, but out of the way when probing DC terminals, doing Reset to Defaults, etc. The USB cable is permanently attached to each Classic, and is stowed in a cast AL box, so there is no need to remove the cover to install the USB cable.
Updates on the KID are very easy. The last update on Classics with the new Loader were all very easy, as well.
FWIW, Vic
Quote from: Vic on January 27, 2019, 02:11:37 PM
Regarding placing the MNGP in a convenient place, will try adding;
Seems that a person could use a longer cable between the Classic being updated and the MNGP during updates.
Have the longer cable for the MNGP if I need to remove the cover. Also leave the USB cable attached and accessed through one of the provided ports.
Quote from: DEinME on January 26, 2019, 08:59:24 AM
Quote from: boB on January 17, 2019, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: mike90045 on January 17, 2019, 02:00:48 AM
Quote from: DEinME on January 16, 2019, 12:19:12 PM
The instructions say to take off the cover to get access to the USB plug. So I remove the cover, unplug the MNGP, and set the cover aside. Or should I leave the cover dangling by the phone cable?
No, remove the cover, reserve 1 screw and place screw thru upper left cover hole, into chassis upper right threads. you can leave it hanging there, with 1 screw, and all cables connected and do the updates.
This has the cover offset to the right side of the chassis
Yes. Exactly.
OR if there is no room on the right, some other corner or maybe even upside down might work ?
Upside down? The screw holes are not near the bottom corner. Hanging the cover upside down would overlap the circuit board by about 2/3 it's height. This might work if I used a long machine screw.
Why would I do that when there's no mention that the cover stays plugged in?
My point is not that it can't be done now that I've failed; it's that there's no instruction on how to do it correctly the first time.
Edited because I originally put my response inside the quoted messages. Your suggestion of "upside down" looks like grabbing at straws to find any way to say this is obvious. I still think the cord hanging from the ceiling will be much easier in the future than any version of putting screws back in mis-matched corners.
I am amending the instructions today, here is what I added sp far" Please note the Display or MNGP "Front Cover" must stay plugged in. This can be accomplished by putting the cover back on with the top two screws only and gently snugging them down essentially pinching the USB cable between the two halfs of the casting."
Quote from: Resthome on January 27, 2019, 11:10:47 PM
Quote from: Vic on January 27, 2019, 02:11:37 PM
Regarding placing the MNGP in a convenient place, will try adding;
Seems that a person could use a longer cable between the Classic being updated and the MNGP during updates.
Have the longer cable for the MNGP if I need to remove the cover. Also leave the USB cable attached and accessed through one of the provided ports.
Yeah I am with you on this John - just leave the usb plugged in and exiting Classic with MNGP on - makes updates easy no taking anything apart.
Quote from: boB on January 27, 2019, 01:30:29 PM
Quote from: mike90045 on January 26, 2019, 10:10:35 AM
I'm going to place a vote (again) for a installer that will run from a bootable, live linux CD or thumbdrive
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
https://linuxmint.com/download.php
and there are a dozen other versions that boot live and does not require the windoze 10 malware (yes win10 is hated that much)
Future products will be more like this. Not bootable though because there is no disc operating system on any of these products.
The Kid is kind of like this in that it appears as a flash drive over a USB connection.
But neither of these will help an MNGP type remote that has to be connected to its host charge controller.
We are working on lots of documentation now. I hope that there are LOTS of pictures ! That would be much better than this whole thread in showing how to hang the Classic front cover with MNGP on the side of the Classic to update it.
boB
Thanks for mentioning that you're working on documentation.
IDK if this is a good time to mention the PWM diagram on p. 43 of Rev. H.
It took me a long time to figure out what's going on here. The pulses look like they vary in frequency while maintaining a 50% duty cycle. I don't care about the frequency but the PWMs I've worked with all change the duty cycle. The change in duty cycle usually makes the output "look" like a change in voltage which almost matches the curve called "voltage" above, except the voltage curve looks like it turns off when it gets high. It took a while for me to understand that the voltage was battery voltage and that there is no diagram of "effective voltage" caused by applying PWM to a voltage source. I understand that the Classic PWM may be an unpowered switch or a PWM'd 14V output voltage depending on the jumper position. So I was looking to the top voltage graph to describe the PWM output, not the battery voltage input. I think labels would have helped me understand the diagram earlier. Perhaps a third trace for "effective voltage" or "effective smoothed voltage" would have helped. I can see that my understanding may be wrong.
Again, thanks.
Quote from: FNG on January 28, 2019, 08:24:58 AM
Quote from: DEinME on January 26, 2019, 08:59:24 AM
Quote from: boB on January 17, 2019, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: mike90045 on January 17, 2019, 02:00:48 AM
Quote from: DEinME on January 16, 2019, 12:19:12 PM
The instructions say to take off the cover to get access to the USB plug. So I remove the cover, unplug the MNGP, and set the cover aside. Or should I leave the cover dangling by the phone cable?
No, remove the cover, reserve 1 screw and place screw thru upper left cover hole, into chassis upper right threads. you can leave it hanging there, with 1 screw, and all cables connected and do the updates.
This has the cover offset to the right side of the chassis
Yes. Exactly.
OR if there is no room on the right, some other corner or maybe even upside down might work ?
Upside down? The screw holes are not near the bottom corner. Hanging the cover upside down would overlap the circuit board by about 2/3 it's height. This might work if I used a long machine screw.
Why would I do that when there's no mention that the cover stays plugged in?
My point is not that it can't be done now that I've failed; it's that there's no instruction on how to do it correctly the first time.
Edited because I originally put my response inside the quoted messages. Your suggestion of "upside down" looks like grabbing at straws to find any way to say this is obvious. I still think the cord hanging from the ceiling will be much easier in the future than any version of putting screws back in mis-matched corners.
I am amending the instructions today, here is what I added sp far" Please note the Display or MNGP "Front Cover" must stay plugged in. This can be accomplished by putting the cover back on with the top two screws only and gently snugging them down essentially pinching the USB cable between the two halfs of the casting."
Thanks. Mentioning this should help a lot.
Is it possible to mention that one solution is to leave a USB cable hanging out?
Quote from: DEinME on February 02, 2019, 06:36:33 AM
IDK if this is a good time to mention the PWM diagram on p. 43 of Rev. H.
It took me a long time to figure out what's going on here. The pulses look like they vary in frequency while maintaining a 50% duty cycle. I don't care about the frequency but the PWMs I've worked with all change the duty cycle.
I just looked at page 44 about the aux output and you are correct that it looks like a 50% duty cycle changing frequency !
And you are correct that this ~should~ show constant frequency with variable duty cycle. Maybe next revision this can be changed in the manual ? It is a bit misleading.
It really is constant frequency and varying duty cycle though for a given "width". I remember that changing the width will adjust the frequency but it will still be a constant frequency and variable duty cycle.
The way the internal software works is that it uses the 0.1V resolution to choose the duty cycle over a 1V range (for 1V width). This gives around 10 different duty cycles for that 1V range.
Should have left out the WIDTH adjustment completely. It just causes confusion and doesn't really help for anything over 1V width.
boB
Quote from: DEinME on February 02, 2019, 06:36:33 AM
It took me a long time to figure out what's going on here. The pulses look like they vary in frequency while maintaining a 50% duty cycle. I don't care about the frequency but the PWMs I've worked with all change the duty cycle.
Simply changing the Fq will only create internal heating /switching losses, which will subtract from the delivered power
Quote from: mike90045 on February 02, 2019, 05:18:06 PM
Quote from: DEinME on February 02, 2019, 06:36:33 AM
It took me a long time to figure out what's going on here. The pulses look like they vary in frequency while maintaining a 50% duty cycle. I don't care about the frequency but the PWMs I've worked with all change the duty cycle.
Simply changing the Fq will only create internal heating /switching losses, which will subtract from the delivered power
Yep. That would be a pretty bad way to use extra power !
It's actually PWM control, not frequency at a fixed Duty
Quote from: boB on February 03, 2019, 01:22:06 AM
Quote from: mike90045 on February 02, 2019, 05:18:06 PM
Quote from: DEinME on February 02, 2019, 06:36:33 AM
It took me a long time to figure out what's going on here. The pulses look like they vary in frequency while maintaining a 50% duty cycle. I don't care about the frequency but the PWMs I've worked with all change the duty cycle.
Simply changing the Fq will only create internal heating /switching losses, which will subtract from the delivered power
Yep. That would be a pretty bad way to use extra power !
It's actually PWM control, not frequency at a fixed Duty
In that same graph (diagram 5, p. 43 of Rev H), in the top curve there is a "width (in volts)". How are these volts set.
I believe the Y axis is battery volts. I'm going to guess that the top dotted line is the charge setpoint and the bottom line is the setpoint from the AUX selection. (?) I.e. if I'm using Waste Not Hi with -0.2V and the charge controller is in absorb at 59V, then the top line would be 59V and the bottom line would be 58.8V. (??)
Thanks.
PS I'm going to fit my browsing into some weekday instead of bugging youse on weekends.
Edit to add: found the width parameter on a config screen for WasteNot