First few sunny days happening here, so just trying to make sense of my newly set up Classics that are in ‘follow-me mode.’
The master gets to end amps (all three have end amps of 12a programmed into them and all three have absorb time of 6 hours also set) and starts the float timer. The other two, seem to just continue on in absorb for the six hours... Today for example the Master shows about 30 minutes in float, the other two show about 5 1/2 hrs in absorb.
The tech from Midnite helped me set them up and said they would either get to end amps and go into float or if end amps wasn’t met, then they would default to the set absorb time.
This is not what I imagined happening... I thought all three would go into float once the master read the end amp setting from the attached WBJr shunt (all three Classics do have the ’shunt’ option engaged)... all three Classics are showing the blinking blue light that suggests they are communicating properly..
Should I adjust the set default time? Or does this seem normal?
Alayz,
I think you have a setting wrong........"all three classics have shunt set"........ I'm pretty sure that would be set only on the one reading the shunt. If the others have that set then they won't know to det that data from the one having the shunt.
Bet that one that went to float has the shunt and the others could not read that shunt and did not see end amps meet desired value.
David
From Midnite Knowledge base
http://www.midnitehelp.com/
CLASSIC - F-ME - How to setup Classics in true Master/Slave Mode
The Follow-Me concept does not embrace Master/Slave topology. With a few "tweaks" you can have a simple master/slave setup which I find personally works better. Below I will tell you how it's done and explain how it works. (this may have limited benefits for 2 Classics)
First, we need to pick a Classic to be our Master Controller. It will be called the "BTS MASTER" Why is this? Because one of the neat advantages of having F-Me setup is we can use a single BTS (Battery Temperature Sensor) and not need 2 or 3 or 4 or xx sensors and all that extra wire tied up somewhere. The BTS-NET option in the Classic allows a single BTS to provide data to all Classics. The BTS-NET is also a easy way to check that the cables are good and the F-Me network is functional.
1 - Pick a BTS MASTER Classic, install the BTS and set it to MASTER in the TWEAKS MENU under BTS-NET (page down to get to the sub-menu)
All other Classics get this set to FOLLOW. This should be self explanatory to most seasoned Solar Installers & Electricians.
2 - If the Whizbang Jr SHUNT Option is going to be installed, install it in this Classic. This Classic will be the "Master of all things". This will be required for ENDAMPS control.
3 - All charging voltages get set the same. The only thing we set differently is CHARGE TIMES.
4 - Set your needed ABSORB TIME in the Master, the rest (Slaves) get set with that plus 10 minutes. See, what this does it lets the Master decide when to send everyone to Float. If for some reason F-Me breaks, all that happens is the slaves stay in Absorb for an extra 10 minutes.
A GF or Ground Fault seems to only shut down the offending Classic so we should not need to worry about down-stream Classics sending data back around. AF or Arc Fault seems to exhibit the same behavior, at least on my 5 Classic system.
There is a misconception that ABSORB is a F-me function, it is not. ALL Classics MUST reach their Absorb voltage independently. ANY Classic that fails to maintain the programmed Absorb Voltage for 90 seconds with be forced BACK into BULK and this mode will be propagated around the F-Me network forcing all Classics back into Bulk.
If using ENDAMPS and REBULK set it up ONLY in the MASTER, let it decide since it has the WhizbangJR (Needed for proper ENDAMPS Operation) Don't use ENDAMPS unless you have a WBjr installed & setup to use the SHUNT.
I have removed the Follow-Me cable from the LAST Classic to the FIRST on my system. Everything goes ONE-WAY from the MASTER on the LEFT to the others on the RIGHT or Down-Stream. This seems to be working, this stops the "SLAVES" from sending modes back to the MASTER flipping it. I like it better but it is not a Midnite supported mode of operation. I like the MASTER to be in total control.
Hope this helps, Jim Parish
Help Topics:
Last updated Wed, Aug 9 2017 12:58pm
Master Classic has ending amps set in follow me. the slave has 0 set for end amps since that disables it.
Since the slave follows the master once the master is satisfied on end amps it goes to float and the others follow it.
You may notice different charging amps from each classic - they don't always contribute the same amount since they are independent that way. I have my classics all going through the same shunt for the master, though I also have whizbang and shunt on the slave. The master system amps on my system shows the combined output from both - the slave only shows it's output .
Larry
Thanks gang... will try some of these ideas.
Have tried everything and no change. I am thinking the phone cords I bought online through ‘The Source’ are not right.
The blue light flashes are not 1/10th of a second, but probably more like 1/2 second long. So, I am guessing that the Classics are not communicating.
Sometimes living remotely in Canada really sucks. Will try to order cables directly from Midnite this time...
Is anyone aware of a video that shows the flashing blue light in a Classic - when correctly connected and communicating?
look at these ... I believe there is on with Ryan(?) showing the flashing LEDs opn one that I remember http://www.midnitesolar.com/videoDisplay.php
Thanks Westbranch. I have seen the ones associated to the follow-me mode and the webinar they did on the follow me too. I couldn’t pick up the flashing blue lights in any of them. No worries. I have MN cables coming - hopefully I will have them within a month. Then will give that a try.
They are just regular 4 conductor telephone cables . I had a long one and chopped it in two and then put ends on - but did them wrong at first because I thought they would be the same on both ends but actually sort of look opposite - even though the wires go to the same pins at each end . Not sure I am explaining that right but regular 4 conductor telephone cables are what they are.
Too bad you are having that trouble - Did you ever get any of the follow me working at all ? You couldn't see the same temperature in each when you set the one to master ?
Maybe if you write down the settings for Follow me for each Classic and compare them you can spot if something is not right - or share them with us and we can see if they look right.
Larry
Thanks ClassicCrazy.
I have been through the settings three times now with the very patient Louis (tech).
I am guessing that because these phone cables are from ’The Source’ that something isn’t right with them, but who knows.
I just read another forum post on how to check the cables. (On each Classic run the cable from the middle port to the bottom port and should see a quick flashing blue light - if the cable and Classic are operating correctly). I will try that tomorrow.
My flashing blue lights seem to be a half second long. So I am guessing that the cords are the issue as it is odd that all three Classics are blinking the same length of time. Which all seem to be slower than 1/10th of a second.
Can the Classics be left powered up when removing and plugging the phone cords in?
Thanks.
I left the Classics on when I plugged them in and out .
If you have a multimeter you can ohm out the cables to see if they have continuity on each pin.
Larry
ahhhh. good idea. thanks.
So, couldn’t wait till morning, cause this was bugging me. So I went down and popped the covers off of the Classics, and checked each phone cord between the middle phone input and the bottom input and none of the phone cords I had purchased online from ‘The Source’ checked out. :-\
I had two little MNGP shorty cable spares and one long old phone cord. Popped them in and I now have a short burst of blue light on each Classic and the temperatures all display as per the Master’s BTS (which wasn’t displayed before).
I can’t close the Classic covers properly for now so will await the MN phone cables before I button them back up properly.
You know, I couldn’t find reasonably short phone cables up here, so I went online and found that ’The Source’ had ten footers. I called and confirmed they were RJ11 / 4 pin regular phone cables. I was assured they were so purchased them. ’The Source’ is like the Walmart of electronics up here in Canada. So very frustrating.
Thanks for all the help. Seems that is all it was.
A couple of things that were extremely valuable, learned here from you guys:
1. How to easily check the cables by running them between the middle and bottom phone input jacks on the Classic;
2. The short blue light burst versus the longer blue light burst. I took for granted that the short blip I was seeing was okay when in fact it was a sign (to the experienced eye) that there was no communication occurring. Kinda too bad that wasn’t more obvious, but now I know.
Gawd. Going to go colour my grey hair now and start drinking again ;)
good to hear you figured out the problem.
Strange that those phone cords don't work . Maybe take a good look at them and see if the wires cross from one connector to the other instead of being straight through. Not sure why they would be that way but sounds like there is some problem with them.
Larry
Hi Larry.
I will probably look at them closer tomorrow, right now I never want to see them again >:(
I will be talking to ‘The Source’ tomorrow morning though. Ha.
Thanks again.
Larry and Alyaz,
Phone cables are available as straight through and crossover. The straight through cables have the locking tabs on opposite sides where the crossovers have both locking tabs on the same side. Many retailers do not know that.
Most phones will work with either cable but data will not work with the wrong connection. I find the 6 wire cables to generally to be of a higher quality than the 4 wire ones. There are data quality 6 wire phone cables out there. That is what MidNite is using for their cabling.
David
Edited to correct my iPad's awful auto spell , anybody know how to turn that thing off!
There are 2 types of 4 position phone cords:
Cheap ones with 2 wires (only works with single line phones)
real ones with all 4 wires ( works with dual line phones )
6 position cables, I don't know what they are
8 position cables are usually ethernet or other network cable
A pretty extensive description is here:
http://www.westernet.net/Help/RJ45.htm
Some premade phone cables only have the center two wires. These cables will be absolutely useless for two line devices.
Yikes. Glad I have the MN ones on the way. Tried to order them originally but...long story.
To all,
One huge difference is that MidNite cables are 600 volt rated, phone networks are 48 volt DC so high voltage is no concern. Normally phone and data cables are separated from power wires being in separate compartments. To meet code requirements the data cables used in a wiring compartment that does contain power wires must be rated at the same voltage as the power wires. The NEC standard for power wiring is 600 volts.
Just try to find phone wires rated 600 volts....I could not find it in a ribbon wire, not anywhere.
I can find 600 volt twisted pair Ethernet cable but you will not find that at any retail store.
Save yourself time just get the MidNite cables.
David
Great info David. Thanks. :)
So we had a completely sunny day today. It was a pleasure to watch the three Classics in unison. They switched to float by noon. Kinda like watching synchronized swimming :)
Good, but WHICH cables did you use?
Hi Westbranch
For the time being, I have two MNGP cables and one old phone cable I found.
I have three new Midnite cables (3 footers) on the way through a distributor but doesn’t look like they have even shipped yet.
I spoke to ‘The Source’ the other day and they told me to take the three cords I bought from them online back to their nearest store and they would refund me. So that was good news :)