I am having trouble setting up my kid to charge my Lithium Batteries I have downloaded the latest Kid update.
I have set the batteries settings according to the manufacture.
I have selected the Lithium Battery Choice If have 400 Ah with 16 individual 3.2 cell packs to make up the 4ea 100 Ah battery packs.
Absorb to 14.2
Time to 10 min
Float to 13.5
Re-bulk to 12.9
End Amps set at 4.0
I have 780 Watts of Solar 24 volt panels
What is happening is when I turn on the Kid it will only charge for 10 min period and then go to float not resting.
No matter how many watts are being produced and so then I will have to change the time of the Absorb to 1hr or more depending on how depleted my Batteries are at the time and then I need to stay close by because if I have selected to long of an Absorb time and it maxes out my 14.2 setting it pulls my individual cell voltage up to and over charge set point. How can I make this setting work that when it gets to the 14.2 Absorb voltage it will turn off at the set time instead of what it is doing just turning off after the set time and not reaching the set voltage? :-\
What type and amount of loads are you running...? If you are not using them a lot ,they will only accept a minimal charge.
I pulled them down to 12.7 and it did the same think I haven't been out using them on a full time basis yet just trying to get it figured out before I go out. But it seams like everything I try it is tied to the time on the Absorb and not the voltage. Any ideas on what to do I was told the kid would work but the people that I bought my batteries from have used the classic 150 and it works I just don't want to have to go to the classic if the kid will work for now.
You have both ending amps and absorb time that will terminate the absorb and take it to float.
Which ever of those two happens first is what takes it to float .
And with lithium batteries that transition can happen very quickly.
You need to watch very carefully and see if it gets to your absorb voltage and then see what the ending amps are .
Do you have a Whizbang and shunt installed on your system ? I have to ask because sometimes people will forget that is needed for ending amps to work properly .
Do you know that your batteries are not full when it goes to float ?
How did you come up with the 4.0 AH for ending amps and the 10 minutes Absorb time ?
Larry
I do not have a whizbang .
I was told that the end amps was 1% of the total Ah in my case 400 Ah
Yes I know it needs to stay at the 14.2 volts for a period of time to be considered full the manufacture told me 1 - 10 min just as long as my individual cells don't limit out on volts.
But why will the charging terminate on the exact minuet that I put in the Absorb time no matter what I put in it will stop exactly on that amount of minuet.
Any help will be appreciated.
The Kid can do a 400Ah battery?
Does your battery have an internal BMS ?
You need the Whizbang because that can know exactly what is going into the battery and what is going into loads.
You also can't determine SOC - state of charge without having a Whizbang and external shunt - the shunt is in the negative line to the battery with one side of shunt going to the battery - and all other negative connections are on the other side of the shunt. That way the Whizbang can tell what is going into and out of the battery - so lets say your PV is charging 10 amps and you have 6 amps of loads - the Whizbang will know that only 4 amps is going into the battery . And when you use it that way the ending amps will also represent the amount of current going into the batteries without any loads .
I have no idea what loads you have on your system - it could be your batteries are full anyway. You need to get a whizbang and shunt installed to be able to know what is going on. It would be exactly the same if you had a classic - would need the same Whizbang and shunt setup.
As to why it cuts out - probably since you have end amps set it goes to 4amps and cuts it off- happens very fast with lithiums - goes from Absorb to Float quickly .
Larry
Quote from: Biopwr on May 05, 2019, 09:35:54 PM
But why will the charging terminate on the exact minuet that I put in the Absorb time no matter what I put in it will stop exactly on that amount of minuet.
Any help will be appreciated.
I'm no Kid expert for sure. But if I understand what you are saying (maybe not). Are you asking why it goes to Float at exactly 10 minutes? If so that is exactly what is supposes to do because you entered 10 minutes into the Absorb Timer setting. It's a timer setting!!
But I never hit 14.2 volts it happens exactly 10 min from where ever it starts if it starts at 12.7 it will run exactly 10 min and then turn off I was told that it would start the 10 min once the voltage 14.2 is reached.
I will order a wizbang and get it installed.
Quote from: Biopwr on May 06, 2019, 08:24:22 PM
But I never hit 14.2 volts it happens exactly 10 min from where ever it starts if it starts at 12.7 it will run exactly 10 min and then turn off I was told that it would start the 10 min once the voltage 14.2 is reached.
I will order a wizbang and get it installed.
I am sure you double checked your settings . Not sure why it would do that . Do you have any temperature compensation set ?
Also double check all your wiring connections to make sure everything is tight . Since it is the Kid have you made sure that the negative of the PV and the Battery connections are not common anywhere ?
There would have to be some reason why if the display shows you 12.7 v and the Absorb is set at 14.2v that it is not working right.
Is the display showing you Absorb with the display showing you the voltage lower than your Absorb ?
Have you confirmed that the voltage showing on the display of Kid is the same as the voltage at the battery by checking with a digital multimeter right at the battery ?
Makes me wonder if the BMS on that battery is doing something you don't know is happening .
You may want to open up a ticket with Midnite and ask them if you can't figure it out .
Larry
No on the temp set
I have my PV neg connected to the Neg shunt on the equipment side not the battery side, :-\ should this be connected to the Neg on the battery bank
The PV Pos is connected to the BMS setup that the battery manufacture provided
It starts out at BulkMPPT and then goes to Absorb for the amount of time set
The voltage is the same until the charging starts and then they are differant
What about the End Amps I have it set at 4.0 should that be higher?
I have 48V lithium batteries for long time set up as absorb 57.6 (@3.6V cell) and end amps 0.1A with 0min absorb time.
Quality lithium batteries have virtually no absorb time so when the voltage reach absorb they are 95-100% full.
Im not sure about end amps but 4A is too high so it can cut your charging before its actually finished.
Best way:
Check batteries so we know where the problem is. Charge them with power supply to 14.4V let it stay until no more current flows in.
Buy something like this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/150W-DC-Digital-voltmeter-Constant-Current-Electronic-Load-200V-20A-Tester-Discharge-meter-car-battery-Capacity/32822372034.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1e0b4c4dpsz2TE
Discharge them with it to 11.2V (@2.8V cell) record real Ah capacity. Charge them again and monitor total Ah going in and record ends amps when you reach 100% capacity.
Also having parallel connected baterries with multiple BMS is not generally good idea, maybe one of your cells is damaged and bms kicks in under-voltage/or balancing protection.
Cheers
Biopwr,
I see your problem.........two problems really...........The p.v. Negative does not connect to shunt.....
IT MUST go directly to the Kid controller and no where else.....The Kid controller measures current in the negative wire. With negative connected to the shunt the Kid will see no current flowing. All other system negative connections go to the shunt. The second problem is setting end amps with no whizbang Jr. ........ End amps reads the values read from the whizbang on the shunt, with no whizbang it has no data to proceed.
Two changes are required here.....change the P.V. Negative output to the p.v. Negative terminal in the Kid controller and get the whizbang jr. With lithium batteries the battery current is sorely needed. The Kid does measure current internally but that current value is total current.....that is battery charge current PLUS load some current. With Lithium is is critical to know the battery charge current......
David
Quote from: Storeko on May 07, 2019, 11:56:17 AM
I have 48V lithium batteries for long time set up as absorb 57.6 (@3.6V cell) and end amps 0.1A with 0min absorb time.
Quality lithium batteries have virtually no absorb time so when the voltage reach absorb they are 95-100% full.
Im not sure about end amps but 4A is too high so it can cut your charging before its actually finished.
Best way:
Check batteries so we know where the problem is. Charge them with power supply to 14.4V let it stay until no more current flows in.
Buy something like this
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/150W-DC-Digital-voltmeter-Constant-Current-Electronic-Load-200V-20A-Tester-Discharge-meter-car-battery-Capacity/32822372034.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.1e0b4c4dpsz2TE
Discharge them with it to 11.2V (@2.8V cell) record real Ah capacity. Charge them again and monitor total Ah going in and record ends amps when you reach 100% capacity.
Also having parallel connected baterries with multiple BMS is not generally good idea, maybe one of your cells is damaged and bms kicks in under-voltage/or balancing protection.
Cheers
I was just looking at those electronic loads on the same link yesterday !
Only reason I didn't order one was because I was trying to decide if it is worth getting the the 180 watt model that costs a bit more.
I want to use it to test my 100 ah Calb cells . If I am thinking correctly I should be able to test a single cell at 50 amps (180w / 3.6v = 50 amps) If I tested a 24v pack it would only load it to about 7 amps if I understand this device.
So would like to hear any more feedback you have about that electronic load.
Thanks
Larry
Quote from: Biopwr on May 06, 2019, 08:24:22 PM
But I never hit 14.2 volts it happens exactly 10 min from where ever it starts if it starts at 12.7 it will run exactly 10 min and then turn off I was told that it would start the 10 min once the voltage 14.2 is reached.
I will order a wizbang and get it installed.
Just to be clear you need to get the Whizbang and the external shunt to install it on .
Larry
The WhizBang is on order.
Tecnodave I will try your suggestions but I am missing something the PV pos and neg connect to the Kid and there is a Battery Pos and Neg also would this neg go to the battery neg or to the shunt.
The other Pos and Neg go to the DC Load.
Please clairify the Battery Neg
Biopwr,
I may have misread your posting.......to clarify.....P.V. positive and negative go to the PV input terminals on the Kid controller. Battery negative from the Kid goes to the shunt, as do all other system negatives. The battery negative goes to the other side of the shunt. With this arrangement all current going to and from the battery goes through the shunt, and this value is read by the whizbang and is reported back to the Kid controller. End amps is controlled by reading the values reported by the shunt/whizbang, not by the internal shunt located within the kid controller.
I have very limited knowledge of using MidNite controllers charging my lithium batteries, I use a programmable lithium charger with built in BMS and monotoring. These are very small scale lithium packs. My main battery banks are FLA
David
EDIT>>>>> biopwr, in your post #10 you stated that you have p.v. negative going to the shunt.....That is incorrect wiring.....the p.v. negative must go to the kid only. The Kid controller measures current in the negative wire and if you wire p.v. negative to the shunt the kid will not "see" any current flowing through itself and with no whizbang it can't read current from the battery. So you have a Kid controller blindfolded......it can't see the power going to the battery, it can't possibly do its job........PLEASE....double check your wiring at the p.v. input. I can't suggest how to charge this battery without the correct wiring, an installed shunt/whizbang. AND a BMS.....when lithium banks fail it can be rather dramatic!
Ok I finally got the Wizzbang and got it installed I am using the custom setting for the battery selection just to update everyone I am using the Lithium Batteries made by elite power solutions and provieded by Starlight Solar Power Systems in Arizona (http://www.starlightsolar.com/starlight_solar/index.html )
This is what I found out the Lithium Batteries selection on the Kid does not work properly it starts the timer that is timing how long it stays in Absorb as soon as the solar charge contorller turns on. The problem with this is you dont know how long to set the time for so it cant be left unatended so I set it up on the custom battery selection. This seems to be working properly, here is how I have it set up.
Asorb 14.2 v
Time 3 min (this is adjustable depending on your battery set from 1 min to 10 min.
Float 10.5 v
EQ set to off
Amplmt set load to 30 and battery to 30
Tcomp set to 0 and Eq to no
Advanced end amps to 0 and rebulk to 50% charge state
This is how I have mine set and it is working thanks to Todd from Midnite Solar. 8)