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Other MidNite Electronics => WBjr => Topic started by: mobywile on December 27, 2020, 02:30:02 PM

Title: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 27, 2020, 02:30:02 PM
I am not sure how this happens, but my WBJr Ah Capacity has somehow set itself to 65111.  When I look at the Classic MNGP, the Ah number is 906, which is correct.  I have tried powering down the Classics, disconnecting the battery, waiting a minute and then resetting.  No change.  I have also tried disconnecting the purple wire and hoping for a reset.  No luck.
This is the second time this has happened and I cannot remember what I did to "fix it before.
I know I'm overlooking something, here.  Does anyone have a solution?
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on December 27, 2020, 03:20:19 PM

Did this increase happen all of a sudden or was it possible over the course of a few hours or minutes at least ?

One thing that can happen is possibly a loose screw holding the WB Jr. down to the shunt causing a high resistance connection.

Make sure those are tight and making good connection of course.

Will think of other things it might be...
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 27, 2020, 03:40:31 PM
I'm not sure if it took a few minutes or not.  It is possible, but not observed.
The screws on the shunt are tight. 
My batteries are LFPs.  I have been tweaking the realtionship between remaining amp hours and the transition from Absorb to Float.  My efficiency is set at 96% and the time of the Absorb is set at 12 minutes.  This has been working just fine for a while now.
That's all I can think of at the moment.

Thanks for the shout.
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on December 27, 2020, 07:55:04 PM

When the Classic is producing some good amount of power, try looking at the Amp-Hours in the WB Jr. menu and see if you can see it racking up the Amp-hours fairly quickly.

Another way this can happen, but I don't think it has happened is that there is a mode that was used for debugging that makes it count up or down fast. I have not heard of that setting ever being made, even accidently but I suppose there could be a first time.

At one point, years ago, I even took a 500 amp  50 mV  shunt and cut it up so that it would put out more voltage per amp just to make things go quickly for software verification.  I also don't remember how that setting gets turned on or off but we can have you look if you determine it is just counting fast.

Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 27, 2020, 08:39:56 PM
Thanks boB. 
It's evening here now, and snow is on the way so it might be a couple days 'til I can get a good charge going to look into your recomendation.
It is interesting that it goes to the same number every day.  This happened once before about amonth or so ago and it generated the exact number that it is using now.  When it discharges and the amp hours are negative, it exactly parallels the a/h counter on my Magnum inverter monitor.  It does not speed up. The plus and minus are the same, the WBJr just uses the 65111 as the net zero point.  This means that it is always either 99% or 100% as 1% equals 651 amp hours.  With the LFPs, I really want the WBJr to give me accurate SOC information.
I did manage to reset it last time but I've forgotten how.  Gettin' old can be a trial at times.
More later,
Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on December 27, 2020, 09:52:05 PM

Oh,  651 Ah and getting 65111  every time !

Yes, interesting...

Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 28, 2020, 12:07:12 PM
Sorry, I may have misled you.  I meant that 651 equals 1% of the 65111 total.  I would have to use 651 amp hours to move the percent by one.  Therefore, I get no really  useful information from the WBJr by looking at the regular screen.  For the 3+ months I have had these batteries, the WBJr has been the most accurate and reliable source of info on SOC and i guess I have come to rely on it.
This morning, my Magnum monitor reads -243 and the WBJr reads 64864 or, minus 247, very close. 
It is snowing nicely now and it is expected to continue for at least 24 hours, maybe 36.  Therefore, zip on the charge cycle.
I appreciate that we need to figure out what happened, but I would like to know why it won't reboot when I, essentially, remove it from the system, i.e. shut down all power from the battery to the Classic and then shut down the array.  Also, nothing changes when I cisconnect the purple wire and then reattach it.  I find that strange. 
Of course, I only have a superficial knowledge of these sophisticted devices and that can be a problem as well. 
Again, thanks for your time and efforts.

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: ClassicCrazy on December 28, 2020, 05:54:40 PM
Quote from: mobywile on December 28, 2020, 12:07:12 PM
Sorry, I may have misled you.  I meant that 651 equals 1% of the 65111 total.  I would have to use 651 amp hours to move the percent by one.  Therefore, I get no really  useful information from the WBJr by looking at the regular screen.  For the 3+ months I have had these batteries, the WBJr has been the most accurate and reliable source of info on SOC and i guess I have come to rely on it.
This morning, my Magnum monitor reads -243 and the WBJr reads 64864 or, minus 247, very close. 
It is snowing nicely now and it is expected to continue for at least 24 hours, maybe 36.  Therefore, zip on the charge cycle.
I appreciate that we need to figure out what happened, but I would like to know why it won't reboot when I, essentially, remove it from the system, i.e. shut down all power from the battery to the Classic and then shut down the array.  Also, nothing changes when I cisconnect the purple wire and then reattach it.  I find that strange. 
Of course, I only have a superficial knowledge of these sophisticted devices and that can be a problem as well. 
Again, thanks for your time and efforts.

Moby

Use the Local Status App to save your settings . Then do a VMM reset  -  you can then use Local Status App to load your settings back in after that.
Look in knowledge base under Classic and it tells there how to do VMM and also how to clear logs if that is what you want to do .
http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/index.php

Larry
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 28, 2020, 08:40:53 PM
Hello Larry,

I take it you are recmmending the process that involves the changing of the jumpers.  This solution will reset the Classic and the MNGP in their entirety, no?  Is that the solution for the WBJr difficulty?  Pardon my naievete about this stuff, please, but I would like to find out what's up with the WBJr, correct it, and reset it to the correct values.   The Local Status App still reads the correct amp hour capacity at 906.  It doesn't read the erroneous 65111 that the WBJr does. 

I appreciate your patience on this.

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on December 29, 2020, 01:01:42 AM

The jumper reset method is only if you don't have an MNGP.  For a while, we sold an MNGP-Less Classic.  Classic Lite.

Now I am not quite understanding.  You said you read -243 on the Magnum battery monitor but -247 on the Classic ?

OK, I see you were just not using signed arithmetic ?   

Have you checked the shunt sense screws with a meter to see if the shunt is giving you the correct voltage per amp ?

500 Amp at 50 mV  shunt ?

Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 29, 2020, 11:36:11 AM
OK.  I have an MNGP and 2 Classic Lites. 

The minus numbers I stated are -243 on the Magnum. The -247 on the Classic, actually read 64864 which equals a minus 247.

I think remember doing the jumper reset at one time to install new firmware? 

I will test the shunt in a bit.  I need to shovel some snow first.

Thanks boB
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 29, 2020, 12:54:22 PM
I tested the shunt voltage.  With a -54 amp draw, i read -5.9mv.
Hope I got this correct.

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 29, 2020, 01:51:19 PM
Finally got some sun.  Charging at 105 amps I get 10.1mv on the shut.

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on December 29, 2020, 05:11:57 PM
Quote from: mobywile on December 29, 2020, 01:51:19 PM
Finally got some sun.  Charging at 105 amps I get 10.1mv on the shut.

Moby

Yep, that would be the correct voltage for that current.

Now, what did the WB Jr. menu say that the current was ?
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 29, 2020, 06:02:58 PM
The same within a volt or less.  I do check that from time to time, anyway, and they are very close.  Right now they are .1 vdc apart.
The net amp hours IN today are exactly the same from my Magnum and the WBJr.
Local App is also the same.
The net numbers are very close, it is just that pesky 65111 total that is a pain.  When I am 100% charged and the WBJr is adding positive net amp hours, that number doesn't go up along with it, though. 
We won't reach 100% today but tomorrow I can do some more checking.  I think the only craziness is that total number.  Everything else seems to be working great.  Do you need to access MyMidnite under my login?  Would that help?

Thanks for the coaching. 
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on December 30, 2020, 06:28:20 AM
Maybe you could take a picture of the display of 65111  ?

I am not getting it in context for my old brain.

What's left of it :)

Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 30, 2020, 10:32:22 AM
OK.  Here are one of the MNGP and one of the Local App.  The battery temp. always does this anytime I reset the Classic.  Temp. Comp. is OFF
As you can see, the Net Amp Hours on both reflect the overnight use and also the lack of sun for the past few days.  Today we might get to 100% and i can take another pic of the ubiquitous 65111.
I am also a seasoned citizen and sometimes i think they should just take me away.  But I persist.

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on December 31, 2020, 12:27:09 AM


Moby !  Thank you for the pictures ! I see what you are talking about here.

However, they are both of the Local App screen.

Need to see the MNGP  WB Jr. screens.  The pertinent ones anyway.

Looks to me like there may be a calculation problem but would need to see that MNGP screen(s)
boB
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 31, 2020, 11:59:16 AM
Sorry about that.  Here is one pic of the  MNGP screen while it was charging and another at 100% charged. 
We have good sun here again today so it will go to 100% before noon, probably.
I will be surprised if this is a calculation problem.  If that were true, I wouldn't have such close correlation between the Magnum and the Midnite, I think.  We just have this arbitrary (?) 65111 number that persists. 
I have gone to the Local App and changed the amp hour capacity and reset with that number and it never changes the 65111. When i go back to the correct number and apply it, same result.
Again, your patience is appreciated.

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on December 31, 2020, 06:30:59 PM
OK, Moby says...

"The Local Status App still reads the correct amp hour capacity at 906.  It doesn't read the erroneous 65111 that the WBJr does."

I don't quite understand what you mean by the WBJr. does or says.

Are you guys reading raw MODBUS data from the Classic somehow ?  Or do you mean MNGP ?

But you should NEVER see anything very much above that capacity depending on temperature, etc. 

Never anything in the 60,000+ Amp-Hour capacity anyway.   

There has to be a calculation error somewhere.  Either that or you guys are saying something I do not understand.

I think that the Capacity is limited to a signed +/- 32,768 Amp-Hours ?   Don't remember exactly.  Might have to look now.


Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 31, 2020, 06:50:16 PM
Hey boB.  I'm sorry if I'm making this harder than it needs to be.  This is the MNGP.  If the Capacity is limited, I guess there is something wrong with the WBJr.  I wouldn't know a MODBUS from a VW Transporter.  Sorry.
When everything was working correctly, I would read the amp hour Capacity at 906 on the MNGP, as I would in the Local App.  Right now, on the Local App main screen, the Capacity reads 65111.  On the Config Advanced Screen, it reads 906.
Temp. Comp is OFF and Device is Not Installed.  No need for this with the LFPs I am told by the maufacturer.
Does any of this help? 
Would it help if I gave you my login and password for MyMidnite? Maybe looking at the SOC versus Net Amp Hours versus Battery voltage would give you a better picture of what i'm talking about.  I'm ready to try anything at this point.

Hope you are going to have some kind of Happy New Year this evening. 

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: Vic on December 31, 2020, 07:13:44 PM
Forget if this has been addressed,  previously,

BUT,   what Firmware are the Classics running?  Forget is the two Lites are using FollowMe  ...

And,  as another aside;  This MNGP is running on a Classic Lite.   Should make NO difference,   but may not to too common, an installation,   et cetera.

FWIW,   HNY,  all,   Vic

Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: ClassicCrazy on December 31, 2020, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: mobywile on December 31, 2020, 06:50:16 PM
Hey boB.  I'm sorry if I'm making this harder than it needs to be.  This is the MNGP.  If the Capacity is limited, I guess there is something wrong with the WBJr.  I wouldn't know a MODBUS from a VW Transporter.  Sorry.
When everything was working correctly, I would read the amp hour Capacity at 906 on the MNGP, as I would in the Local App.  Right now, on the Local App main screen, the Capacity reads 65111.  On the Config Advanced Screen, it reads 906.
Temp. Comp is OFF and Device is Not Installed.  No need for this with the LFPs I am told by the maufacturer.
Does any of this help? 
Would it help if I gave you my login and password for MyMidnite? Maybe looking at the SOC versus Net Amp Hours versus Battery voltage would give you a better picture of what i'm talking about.  I'm ready to try anything at this point.

Hope you are going to have some kind of Happy New Year this evening. 

Moby

I know what I do when electronic brains get scrambled on any devices  - I do a reset to factory defaults. In this case a VMM would work on the one with the MNGP . If not updated to newest firmware already  I would update all of them, then do VMM , or jumper reset if needed for ones without MNGP.  If the problem persists then take it to the next stage of trouble shooting.

Larry

Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on December 31, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
Hey Vic,

MNGP is running Revision 1933.  Classic is 2126.  MNGP controls both Lites as does the Local App.

Follow Me is in place.

Larry,

I am about ready to do all you suggest if we think it will change this craziness.  Should I do a complete firmware update or just a reset?

2021 is coming and man is she pi##ed!

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: ClassicCrazy on December 31, 2020, 10:20:39 PM
Quote from: mobywile on December 31, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
Hey Vic,

MNGP is running Revision 1933.  Classic is 2126.  MNGP controls both Lites as does the Local App.

Follow Me is in place.

Larry,

I am about ready to do all you suggest if we think it will change this craziness.  Should I do a complete firmware update or just a reset?

2021 is coming and man is she pi##ed!

Moby

Firmware updates had fixes for this and that over the years. The Classic Firmware is up to 2193 now. If you use the Local Status App - first I would save all my settings using that so you don't have to manually re-enter setpoints after updates.  Then I would update the firmware ( and MNGP update too for the one that has that )  on all of  your Classics and do a VMM (or jumper reset for Lites )  after  you have done the firmware updates. You can then use the Local Status App to restore all your settings.

Happy New Year to your hopefully bug free Classics !

Larry
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on January 01, 2021, 01:07:36 AM
All I know is that capacity should never be reading anywhere near 65111 amp-hours.

If for some reason it is a negative value, it should not be reading a high positive value, it should be reading a negative value.

Will look into this.

Yes, having a wonderful new years' eve by myself   Oooo...  Awwww....

Happy new year !
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on January 01, 2021, 01:01:30 PM
Thank you, gentlemen.  I will get my head around the updates and get set up with the laptop, etc.  It has been a long time since I did one of these so I'll wait 'til the system is full sometime this weekend.  I'll need to read the instructions, etc. a couple times to reorient myself.  I hope this fixes everything.

How can a ham be alone, ever?  My dad was K1MQM, the "Mighty Quiet Mouse" in Westborough, MA., and he was always with friends whenever he fired up the rig.

I'll be in touch when i make the changes.

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on January 01, 2021, 03:21:48 PM
Oh Boy!  2021 has begun. 
I went down to the battery/utility room to begin the process of upgrading the Classics, I have two, removed the covers, plugged in the comms cable,and came into the house.  Upon checking that I had all the info I wanted prior to reset, I saw that the MNGP, WBJr, and Local App all had reset to the correct readings.  Really, I swear that it happened that quickly and at that moment.  I had looked at the readout on the MNGP just prior to going down to prep for the upgrade and it was reading all the wrong numbers. 
What to do?
I think I'll leave it as-is and monitor it to see if it goes haywire again.  We have good sun today and everything will cycle through bulk, absorb, and float so I'll get a look at all the numbers.  Also, I can compare it to the Magnum monitor to make sure they match.
Happy New Year everybody.  I can't thank you enough for all the help.  I'll keep in touch.

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on January 01, 2021, 05:01:32 PM
Quote from: mobywile on January 01, 2021, 03:21:48 PM
Oh Boy!  2021 has begun. 
I went down to the battery/utility room to begin the process of upgrading the Classics, I have two, removed the covers, plugged in the comms cable,and came into the house.  Upon checking that I had all the info I wanted prior to reset, I saw that the MNGP, WBJr, and Local App all had reset to the correct readings.  Really, I swear that it happened that quickly and at that moment.  I had looked at the readout on the MNGP just prior to going down to prep for the upgrade and it was reading all the wrong numbers. 
What to do?
I think I'll leave it as-is and monitor it to see if it goes haywire again.  We have good sun today and everything will cycle through bulk, absorb, and float so I'll get a look at all the numbers.  Also, I can compare it to the Magnum monitor to make sure they match.
Happy New Year everybody.  I can't thank you enough for all the help.  I'll keep in touch.

Moby

AMAZING what a new year can bring !

I'll keep my fingers crossed !  ALL year !   :)


Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: mobywile on January 01, 2021, 07:00:08 PM
Amazing, yes.  Satisfying, not so much.  I would love to know what caused this to happen in the first place.

As I said, I'm not updating anything just yet.  I think my firmware versions are new enough to continue as before.  If I get a repeat performance, I will post it right away. 

Onward into the fog......

Thanks again,

Moby
Title: Re: WBJr Ah Capacity
Post by: boB on January 01, 2021, 08:36:13 PM
Quote from: mobywile on January 01, 2021, 07:00:08 PM


Onward into the fog......



Out of the fog, into the smog !

Yes, it is always good to  understand the problem !