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New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: New Off Grid Inverter Charger
« Last post by Robin on Today at 12:23:46 AM »
We probably won't have any of the Rosies or Little Rosies out until the end of the year, so you may want to look at the 90% built in Mexico Magnum.
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Mario,
Does 1863 have the new windows 10 update, or do I need to use the old key updater?


Thanks.
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here in australia telephone cables usually do NOT cross over. i had to order  special cross over cables.

naturally this might be entirely different in the USA .
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Quote
As an aside,   have wondered,  if some of the extremely high Vabs requirements for a number of the Trojan batter  models,  is   that,  perhaps they have some Calcium in the plates (many of these batteries,  seem to need a Temperature Compensation value of -3mV/Cell/C  --  a common value for lead-calcium batteries, vs -5mV for lead Antimony batts).   Lead-calcium batteries Gas less vigorously,   are used in Low Maintenance/Maintenance Free batteries,   and this is probably the main reason for the use of lead-calcium batteries (reduced water electrolysis),  IMO.

Might be a good catch:

Look at #4 under BATTERY SELECTION on this page.  Seems Trojan does not admit using Lead-Calcium,  but as my experience has shown, at "standard" absorb voltages (and per Trojan spec), charging at 2.46Vpc does NOT get the batteries to full charge.  The EA is reached to a flat line,  but the SG is off by about 10 points (or about 94% SOC).  Cant really find anything one way or the other in reference to the use of lead-calcium.

https://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/faq/

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1.83 VPC?  :o

Isnt that like lower than 10% SOC?   I'd be afraid to do that even once. 
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That’s one way of doing it. You still need something like an intervolt relay(high amperage), I use a 150amp relay. The classics itty bitty relay can connect to the intervolt as a signal relay and it uses that as the primary signal to open or close the intervolt’s relay. Good fun playing around with them.
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The reason that you want to do a timed absorb (however long for the particular FLA battery) is so the batteries don't sulphate.

The reason you don't want to absorb every day (unnecessarily)  is so that you don't prematurely wear the batteries out.

This is my understanding
boB

Hi boB,

Just for my final beating of this poor horse ...

YES,   an adequate Absorb time and voltage will return sulfates on the battery plates to the electrolyte,  and thus,  increase the electrolyte SG.   This is an important thing for maintaining battery Capacity,   and sulfates that are allowed to remain on the plates  can harden,  and can cause permanent loss of Capacity,  if batteries are not fully charged on a regular basis.   Agree with your statement (previously),   that it IS better to overcharge (longer Abs time,  and/or higher Vabs than really needed for a full-charge) batteries,   than to under-charge them.

But,  one of the important functions of using Return,  or Ending Amps,  is to terminate Absorb when that current reaches a point where  the change in this current,  essentially becomes zero,   even when using Skip Days.   Using Skip Days,  might make finding an optimum EA setting  a bit more difficult,  vs,  not skipping days.

With varying DOD,   from one day,  to the next,   is the main reason that Shunt EA is used on the battery banks here.   Deeper DODs require longer Absorbs,   so  EA is perfect for this situation  verses using only a Timed Absorb.

There is no reason that using well-studied EA value would result in insufficient-long Absorb charge stage.   Depending on DOD on our batteries,  some Absorbs require less than two hours,   and,   some around four hours ...   all depends.

We measure SGs frequently (at least on the Pilot Cells),   and Skip Day Shunt EA  does a wonderful job fully-charging the batteries,  while not needing to resort to a Timed Absorb.   With that variable DOD on these batteries,  one would need to set an Absorb Time,  that was always (or almost always) too long.

After using only CC EA,  or Shunt EA for the 12.75 years of service of each of the two battery banks here,   these batteries are doing fine.   Have needed to increase Vabs somewhat to reach full-charge,  starting about 2.5 years ago,  as the batteries age.  This increase in Vabs,   required raising the EA value a bit (as one would expect).

I DO agree with your statement that deep-cycle batteries DO need to be cycled fairly deeply.   But,  we do not do this too frequently.   The Surrette Battery Bulletin #614  used to council,  that for their customers who are having problems maintaining Capacity,   or  those  with Charge Acceptance issues,  should consider cycling the battery bank down to about 1.83 Vpc (about 11 V, per 12 V equivalent),   and then fully recharge them (without delay).   This is just too extreme for me  --  the deepest that we cycle the banks here,  is to about 50% SOC,  and recharge fully,  immediately.

And,   I would fully charge,  daily,  if the batteries were being cycled to/below about 80% SOC,  or lower.

One other good reason for using Skip Days on off-grid FLAs,  is,  to help reduce battery heating,  plus reduction on positive plate erosion,  plus a couple of other things.

As an aside,   have wondered,  if some of the extremely high Vabs requirements for a number of the Trojan batter  models,  is   that,  perhaps they have some Calcium in the plates (many of these batteries,  seem to need a Temperature Compensation value of -3mV/Cell/C  --  a common value for lead-calcium batteries, vs -5mV for lead Antimony batts).   Lead-calcium batteries Gas less vigorously,   are used in Low Maintenance/Maintenance Free batteries,   and this is probably the main reason for the use of lead-calcium batteries (reduced water electrolysis),  IMO.

Give me Lead-Antimony batteries,   please.

All FWIW,   just opinions,  but,   based on experience,   Vic
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The "Classic" charge controller / Re: Classic 250 Whining Noise
« Last post by Syonyk on May 24, 2018, 03:03:33 PM »
My controller has been making a whining noise when it's running during peak hours. (Someone told me it probably is the cooling fans) I just want to make sure that this is normal.

...

Any ideals or suggestions?

Contact Midnite support.

My Classic 200 was whining pretty badly under similar conditions (a quick audio analysis indicated peaks at 11.5kHz and 14kHz) - definitely not the fans, and since it's inside my office, it was pretty well annoying.  It seemed to be correlated to high charging voltages and high charging amps (so sunny winter mornings as it got up towards absorb were really loud).  For mine, it was temperature sensitive - changing the unit temperature impacted the whining, but it eventually got bad enough that I contacted support.  We tried a few different things, including firmware updates, and nothing worked, so I sent it back for repairs.  A week and a half later, I've got it back and it's not whining so far!  I'll give it a while to settle in, but it sounds like it's a somewhat known issue that can be resolved by replacing a few components on the board.

To update your firmware with a Macbook Pro, you could do something with a virtual machine, or just borrow a techie friend with a Windows laptop. :)
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New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: New Off Grid Inverter Charger
« Last post by ZoNiE on May 24, 2018, 11:33:45 AM »
This is good news. I'm looking to replace my 22 yr old Heart Freedom inverter/charger in my Safari and am on the fence with whether I want the India built sealed OB or the US Built Magnum. Would really like a MNS solution to go with my Classic 150. If the OB was still built here, I probably already would have bought one...

I can wait for the MNS solution, but not too terriblly long.  :D
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Would this not be a case for Waste Not or a similar relay output in the Classic?
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