Local App - SNAFU :-|

[dgd]

[insult mode OFF]
[sarcasm mode MEDIUM]
[rant mode ENABLED]

I am not intending to offend anyone but this local app has truly earned the description SNAFU.
I just find it incredible that we keep being told that the obvious bugs and errors are being urgently worked on by a 'team'  24/7
Either that team is just bloody incompetent OR the MN management have dropped the ball or maybe never had the ball(s) in the first place when it comes to understanding the requirement for solid working debugged software to support and enhance your (excellent) AE products.

I have read that MN have 13 (?) engineers on staff. Are any of these software engineers? And I dont mean an electrical or electronics engineer who has been on a course about embedded processing, I mean a properly qualified computer scientist, someone who understands software design and application. I suspect such a person does not exist and would seriously suggest MN recruits a computer science graduate asap.

Just getting back to the local app. I cringe in disbelief every time I look at it, the data displaying part just beggars belief that a simple index error cannot be corrected in 5 minutes instead of taking months - and still counting..

Computer Science - Elementary Programming 101, accessing data structures:

eg     Array   Classic_logged_data (380)    /* an array of 380 data elements */

         for index=0 to 379
             display Classic_logged_data [index]
         endloop

NOTE that the array is indexed starting at the zero'th location and goes up to 379, there is no  380, as that is outside the bounds of the array

Sure looks like this simple programming concept is forgotten in the local app as the history misses the first entry and starts with the second which is index entry 1.
I also remember somone saying the 0 entry is not part of the history as 0 holds the current days data, not so... if you power off Classic the current days data is lost as it is held in volatile memory, ie RAM but the history is not loast as it is in non-volatile memory, ie FLASH.
And having the display go past the 379 data item then repeat the array contents    Absolutely awful, the programmer (?) who did this should be ashamed...

[end rant]


C'mon Midnite, pick the ball up and get this software done properly   

dgd

[boB]

dgd,  We only have one engineer working on this particular problem at the moment.  Me.

Actually, I am not working on the 380+ problem in the local app but some more
important annoyances that are in the Classic itself.

I know about the 380+ slots.  If you actually export to a file you will find 384 some points.

That is completely different problem related to the local app.
Yes, you would certainly think it would be a simple 5 minute job to fix that.   More like 2 minutes ?


We/I are well aware of the problems.  Please let us at least try to fix it and
don't fan the flames.

If you are a programmer, please feel free to write some software.

boB

[Lya72]

Hi Bob,

Two minutes or one hour to correct this annoyance, that's not the problem, because we are actually playing with ... months.

Actually, I have a battery problem and the batteries vendor wants some logs.
Now, I am unable to give corrects logs.


WHY don't you put online a Beta version with this little correction ?


Thanks.

Yann

[SolarMusher]

Hey guys, did you eat some horse meat  ?
Take a breath. Maybe a sled dog trip  .
What's your battery problem, Yann ?
Erik

[dgd]

dgd,  We only have one engineer working on this particular problem at the moment.  Me.

Actually, I am not working on the 380+ problem in the local app but some more
important annoyances that are in the Classic itself.

I know about the 380+ slots.  If you actually export to a file you will find 384 some points.

That is completely different problem related to the local app.
Yes, you would certainly think it would be a simple 5 minute job to fix that.   More like 2 minutes ?


We/I are well aware of the problems.  Please let us at least try to fix it and
don't fan the flames.

If you are a programmer, please feel free to write some software.

boB

..resources not available. <sigh>. Back to wait mode 
I will get a round tuit, software that does local app functions but I was hoping that MN would move to a built in web interface in the Classic before that became necessary for me.
My programming efforts now are web interface on RaspPi that I have just set up with an 18bit AtoD
Interface to 500a current shunt. I need to get a BM developed to get these LiFeYPo4 cells auto charging.

Dgd

[Lya72]

Hi Erik,

No horse meat, but WAF and Waiting stress !!

WAF (Woman Acceptance Factor) :

"his solar installation of more than 4 000 euros is just able to power the computer that is logging the solar production, and NOT all days"


Waiting Stress :

- do you know Classic ModBus specifications ??
- do you know  VariMax documentation ??
- do you know Classic logging capabilities ??

They all have in common the fact that Bob says in two days, or in a week , and we are waiting for months !!  (Re-Read the forum).

Bob is also the biggest contributor on this forum and the problem is that Bob is just an  human : he can't be everywhere !! Developping good Software
And contributing And....


My Classic choice was made a  year ago , based on the logging capabilities advertised and sorry, but for the moment, they aren't present.
See the screen capture of a concurrent in the first DGD post and you will see what is
a logging table !!  ( no colors, just accurate datas).
Another log example :
Every minute, i can connect to my Web Relay Board with the following Url : http://IPRelayBoard/Status.xml and i can see all the values in my browser, without the need for a modbus developpment or a LocalApp running 24/24.

Yes, that's a negative post.
But in some hours, i will post some positive points, after verifications.
Yes, they exist, but without the associated communication, who knows

Yann

[SolarMusher]

Hi Yann,

"his solar installation of more than 4 000 euros is just able to power the computer that is logging the solar production, and NOT all days"

I don't understand where datas logging capabilities could really improve your system... 

- do you know Classic ModBus specifications ??
- do you know  VariMax documentation ??
- do you know Classic logging capabilities ??

About Modbus spec, I'm not an engineer, just a little musher! I know nothing about that and have no interest in learning Modbus or chineese 
boB gave accurate infos on Varimax on this forum, please take a time to read and understand.
I'm with dgd here, and would prefer a built in web interface.
You're right about documentations, they are not always great but did you read Outback, Morningstar or Xantrex doc? They are worst! It's not only a Midnite problem. All manufacturers are great to make a single function very hard to understand to end users  .
I'm off grid and personnaly, and I've to say that I prefer a great charge controller which do his job perfectly day by day and harvest the most PV energy rather than a common controller which have data logging capacity. Never forget the primary goal of a controller... To me, a company who is constantly trying to improve their products in interaction with end users, with frequent updates is THE way to go. That said, nothing is perfect in this world and I agree that all these bugs in the loc app and Classic should have been corrected for a while even if it's not the most important to me.
People in our society are very demanding for others (but not for themself) and want it all for yesterday. Facebook time... 
I'm sure boB is not deaf and that there must be some good reasons for these bugs to not have been corrected yet.
What's your battery problem, Yann?
Erik

[Resthome]

 

To me, a company who is constantly trying to improve their products in interaction with end users, with frequent updates is THE way to go.

People in our society are very demanding for others (but not for themself) and want it all for yesterday. Facebook time...                    

I'm sure boB is not deaf and that there must be some good reasons for these bugs to not have been corrected yet.

Erik

Could not have said it better, Erik. It's great we get to point out the issues and have the designers and tech support comment on them in the forums. 

I appreciate the work the folks at Midnight do and their willingness to share where they are going and even admit their issues. There are a lot of companies that consider this type of sharing company proprietary data. How many companies share bug data with their customers? How many companies charge you for every new version of software? How many companies never update their products once you bought them? Keep up the great work Bob, Ryan and the rest of the crew at Midnight and don't let a few flames change Midnight.

[SolarMusher]

Rest, I'd like to say it as you did, perfect 
Erik

[Lya72]

@RestHome,

Sorry but with my bad translation, I can't express all the nuances, subtilities to put my words in chocolate, as I can in French, so I think I'm too direct in my communication.

You seem satisfied, but when I look at your forum's posts, 8 of 11 are relative to logs problems.
Maybe, you are always positive, even facing problems, so be happy.



@Erik,

I don't understand where datas logging capabilities could really improve your system... 

Why Logs are important : "If you cannot measure it, you cannot improve it." (Lord Kelvin).


The installation of my neighbor has produced in January 2013 33% more than mine.

So there is a problem, my installation isn't working as it should !!

The solar panels vendor says that is a controller problem at low irradiation.

The batteries problem is that they don't absorb the charge, don't keep the charge and are jumping hight voltage very rapidly.

The batteries vendor says that the solar controller isn't good at work.


So, i need logs to know what isn't well functioning in my installation.

And when I'm at work all the day and all the week, I'm not facing my Classic to look at the values.


Erik, you say, you don't use the logs because you have no need, until it's running.

It's like a car you bought and you said "no need of the meter and the tachometer, until it can transport me from A to B."

OK, I understand your point of view.

I'm with dgd here, and would prefer a built in web interface.

So am I, I'm with you in this quest, re-read my WebRelayBoard sample, above .

People in our society are very demanding for others (but not for themself) and want it all for yesterday. Facebook time...

NO, I'm not a FaceBook user, no time to loose.
NO, I'm not wanting the future features, yesterday, but the yesterday features , today !!!



Before I bought my Classic, the logs functions were advertised, so for me at this date, last year, it was already in production, not in Beta.


Relating to VariMax, if there is a manual and that manual has been published after the latest firmware version, for me, it should present the VariMax fonctionality.

Instead saying RTFM as a lot says, you say go into the forum posts to find the information, so I will dig.



Also, in this latest manual dated 01/07/2013, the Classic menu Map should have been updated to reflect the numerous changes, since April 28 2011 (page 77).




To finish with positive informations as I promised, consecuting to my precedent "flames",

- MidNiteSolar.com menus are now compatible with the IPAD and the Iphone .

- The latest Classic Manual is now versionned,.. inside !


So Kudo's to the Midnite Team for that !!


Yann

[dgd]

Erik,
You are right, Data logging per se does not improve RE system performance.
It is the medium to longer term analysis of the logged data that provides useful information, such as trends in performance, shortfalls and excesses in the system design or configuration, and data that can be used to plan or justify system upgrading, downgrading or expansion.
I remember just after the logging was introduced into the local app that someone pointed out there was a regular down spike in wattage from the Classic and asked why. BoB answered it was the mppt algorithm rescanning. This only came to notice because of logging.

Dgd

[SolarMusher]

Erik,
You are right, Data logging per se does not improve RE system performance.
It is the medium to longer term analysis of the logged data that provides useful information, such as trends in performance, shortfalls and excesses in the system design or configuration, and data that can be used to plan or justify system upgrading, downgrading or expansion.
I remember just after the logging was introduced into the local app that someone pointed out there was a regular down spike in wattage from the Classic and asked why. BoB answered it was the mppt algorithm rescanning. This only came to notice because of logging.
Dgd

Hi Dgd,
Don't get me wrong, I understand that some people could find data logging very useful and need it everyday to monitor their system from remote location.
The main reason I don't use the loc app regularly is that I have the chance to monitor my system at a glance several times a day and that I don't want to waste energy powering a laptop 24/24hrs.
Of course, I understand people who could be frustrated with these bugs but at this time Midnite has given us a great product so I just believe that we could have a bit of indulgence (and patience) waiting for boB to solve these problems.
From what I've read in Yann's post data logging will not help to charge his batteries...

Yann,
Could you give us more details on your system: PV watts voltage, battery voltage and Ah capacity, daily loads, Classic settings...

I don't understand where datas logging capabilities could really improve your system...

Why Logs are important : "If you cannot measure it, you cannot improve it." (Lord Kelvin).

You get me wrong, all I wanted to say is that your problem/solution is in your system design or settings and that you just have to check it carefully to solve your issue. Tell us more on your system and I'm pretty sure that someone here could help you if you need.
Erik

[Westbranch]

Yann, you said "The batteries problem is that they don't absorb the charge, don't keep the charge and are jumping high voltage very rapidly."

I think you have a dying set of batteries and what you stated sounds, to me, like your batteries are suffering from sulphation. If they are, you need to take remedial action quickly...

hth

[SolarMusher]

Agree with West, even brand new batteries could be sulfated if not charged at 100% SOC several times a week.
And add:
Did you check your SG first.
Do have a battery monitor installed on your system?
Give us the specs of your batteries, flood or wet?
How many PV watts do you have to charge these batteries?
What is your system voltage and PV voltage?
What are your absorb setpoint, time and end amps value?
What is your daily load?
Don't give up 
Erik

[dgd]

Hi Dgd,
Don't get me wrong, I understand that some people could find data logging very useful and need it everyday to monitor their system from remote location.
The main reason I don't use the loc app regularly is that I have the chance to monitor my system at a glance several times a day and that I don't want to waste energy powering a laptop 24/24hrs.
Of course, I understand people who could be frustrated with these bugs but at this time Midnite has given us a great product so I just believe that we could have a bit of indulgence (and patience) waiting for boB to solve these problems.
From what I've read in Yann's post data logging will not help to charge his batteries...

Erik,
sorry I was generalising... ongoing monitoring as you do is probably what most  of us do. I'm visiting my MNGP screens several times a day
I also think Yann's battery states and charging needs looking at
dgd