Author Topic: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules  (Read 19657 times)

Westbranch

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2013, 08:28:35 PM »
yes, that is correct, Gen power, no grid, inverter separate from charger.

Inverter has an auto transfer switch, which shuts off output from the battery, note: there is still a tare load to measure, while the charger is supplying watts to the  battery,

However there is also a setup that could also run as you described in point 3.

It is called Generator Support where both gen and Inverter jointly power loads based on parameters the operator sets .  These are usually based on the Genny's max output.  This feature is found in top end systems.

see this posting  http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/showthread.php?18459-Demonstration-of-Generator-Support
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CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
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Gregy

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2013, 11:47:05 PM »
Ok - so is I think 3  sensor will cover majority of cases
I'm now speculating to myself about the "multi inverter" case
Eg with 2 inverters (quite common) tied together ... Is it possible to get
To appropriate point to measure combined AC power input/output (I'm assuming the AC dist panel)?

. I'm sure there are other very special
Cases that might need more, eg with more than 1 generator, or of course when a grid is introduced

 the emonTX device has 3xCT capability in the v2 version so it can cover
All the popular scenarios with one unit
Of course it's possible to add additional units to expand ... So scales easily

I think we have the base cases covered with 3

Westbranch

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2013, 12:09:02 AM »
Yes there are installations with 2 stacked inverters for 240V (in nominal 120V) systems.
Another option is where an Outback PSX-240 is used  to supply 240V from a 120V supply. 

http://www.altestore.com/store/Enclosures-Electrical-Safety/Miscellaneous-Electrical-Parts/Transformers/Outback-PSX-240-Autotransformer-with-Fan/p4089/

Yes agree that 3 should cover the bases, for instance, I have 2 generators which I use as needed
ie 3000W - Bulk charge, 1000W Absorb/Float charge
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

Gregy

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2013, 12:22:05 AM »
1 CT on the combined generator output could measure "generator" (one or other or combined?)
I assume you can't run them together. Unless you have a sync panel/system
Or maybe you have two different chargers ..... Ay oh my head is now spinning .. Stop

If BBP can allow for "up  to 2x emonTX " boards (total 6 CT sensed power flows) that should be enough.
Most users will need only one, but we can allow for 2 for the more complex scenarios
(Also enables separate circuit monitoring of AC loads ... For the numerically obsessive amongst us :)

Agree?

Gregy

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2013, 12:34:31 AM »
Thanks for the NAWS link, I've been lurking over there and reading LOTS
I saw and read the write up you refer - which really helped my understanding and planning,
But also threw me various dilemma - which in due course I will ask for guidance in
Their newby forum
I will edit the reply #10 post above to reflect the above scenario changes
Greg

Westbranch

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2013, 12:38:18 AM »
Yes, that number of sensors will likely be sufficient. No the gens will not be running at the same time.  Manual start right now.  Will have a selector switch to choose where power comes from.
 
 In an Off Grid setting, redundancy is king, so that you have a way to keep going , if albeit at less than full capacity. My house wiring will be split into heavy and light loads , with a 6oow inverter powering the light loads, pun intended, as it will run, 24/7, all lighting and sat. internet related loads. The big boy will run fridge and other appliances associated with the cooks department... and it has a sleep mode.
This is my solution, using what I had and will be upgraded as needed.
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

Westbranch

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2013, 12:42:00 AM »
Yes Chris is a very knowledgeable sort, with a unique setup.  That post is a great resource.

PM me if you need some assistance, my PV experience has been a growing phase over the last 6 years.
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

Gregy

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2013, 02:56:58 AM »
westbranch
can you pls re-read the reply #10 and check my changes and logic per above discussions
ive tried to make scenario 2 a bit more generic; also cover the multi power flow cases in scenario 3 which is a bit more open ended now

Gregy

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2013, 06:18:21 AM »
emonTX V3
just found this update ... fantastic! - fully asssembled SMD version due soon
It has 3xCT + 1xCT (4 in total) - so this expands the power flow sensing capability
also has a "low pwr" option (with reduced functionality)
also a great reference schematic
http://openenergymonitor.blogspot.com/2013/08/emontx-v3-progress-update.html

so now  a fully assembled version of the sensing node and the base are avail

i have updated reply #10 post accordingly

Gregy

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2013, 06:31:41 AM »
emonTH
a temperature and humidity remote sensing module... coming soon

http://openenergymonitor.blogspot.com/2013/06/emonth-prototype.html?view=magazine

ZB - its starting to look like your "ethernet" wish is becoming a reality .... and all using a single "emonBASE" ethernet gateway
with wireless RF for the remote nodes - at least that what its looking like to me ....

in a later blog 18/10 - he has measured prototype battery consumption (with sleep mode) ... and claims
battery life of 3+ years ! hmmm no solar charging or anything required for that remote node!

I retract my earlier supposition of overlap with openenergymonitor ... seems there could be overlap,
however that means less interfacing development  for BBP - and more ethernet data available for it to ingest! .. a good thing
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 06:36:23 AM by Gregy »

Gregy

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2013, 06:47:51 AM »
more ethernet "food for thought" to deliver ZB wish ..

https://shop.wickeddevice.com/product/nanode-gateway-no-radio

A Nanode gateway (no RF) with ethernet built in
100% open source sw
On chip web server allows remote control of I/O.
6 analogue sensor lines with 10 bit A-D converter.
Up to 14 digital I/O lines.
Serial Inter-Nanode Bus – allows Nanodes to be slaved together.
it does appear quite power hungry (definitely not for battery)

... and at $24 fully built .....  I can see it offering strong competition to other similar devices ....

Westbranch

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2013, 12:21:17 PM »
Greg re #22 I think you have got a good description, it covers what I was thinking. :)
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

zoneblue

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2013, 04:32:22 PM »
Greg, i just want to say the research you are doing on this is suburb and fantastic. I had the same initial response to openenergymonitor as you did, that it was bound too tightly to grid tie. However the whole open principle, to me, just begs that we find a way to cooperate with those guys. Maybe we can develop a new remote emon board that has specific support for dc measurements?

Do we need to make some kind of formal introduction to/with them?
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zoneblue

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2013, 04:44:42 PM »
Gees Greg, that looks like heaps of fun:
https://shop.wickeddevice.com/product/nanode-tutorial-complete-product-kit

Its almost enough to tempta guy to learn to code in 32K bites.
6x300W CSUN, ground mount, CL150Lite, 2V/400AhToyo AGM,  Outback VFX3024E, Steca Solarix PL1100
http://www.zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar

Gregy

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Re: Black box project (BBP) sensing modules
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2013, 10:16:45 PM »
zb 
if your ordeing the wicked starter kit, perhaps order one these also
https://shop.wickeddevice.com/product/assembled-low-power-sensor-and-transmitter-node

"simply add up to 4 sensors – analog or digital – just by soldering them onto the pads"
not a lot of details on it - im trying to find more info
... but for $20 you get a very low pwr  remote sensor that can take 4 ADC