Author Topic: Hybrid Electric Boat  (Read 1498 times)

mcawthon

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Hybrid Electric Boat
« on: March 04, 2014, 07:24:42 PM »
Hi Everyone,
I'm new to alternative energy and the forms. I did a quick search and did not find anything on this topic. I am designing and building a 36' Electric Propultion Boat. I am trying to figure out a few things:

1) The boat will have two 5kw electric inboard motors. Do you think I should have (1) 400ah 48V battery bank or (2) 200ah 48v battery banks (one designated to each motor)? I'd like to do two if possible.

2) The boat will have (8) 305 watt solar panels for the day time, (2) 600 watt 48v wind generators for the night time, and a 9kw 48v DC generator for extended motoring. I've been reading that a combiner brings together PV panels. Can it also bring all three of the sources together since they are all 48v sources?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and advice.

Halfcrazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2386
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 07:43:11 PM »
Not knowing much about boats. twin 5kw motors? So 10Kw of motor and 400AH of battery? So you will have about 1hr of run time total?

Not sure if you where putting more than 1 305 watt panel?

But after that the combiner will only combine like sources IE Wind or Solar not both as they are two different types of tracking thus needing there own controllers
Changing the way wind turbines operate one smoke filled box at a time

mcawthon

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 03:46:42 AM »
Ok I don't know where that guy with the sun glasses came from, but that was suppose to be eight of the 305 watt solar panels. Yes about an hour on battery at full throttle. Full throttle is not needed much in cruising. It is nice to have a bit of power for out running storms or when you want to get into a harbor before dark. If I did push the throttle past 60% for any period of time I'd also kick on the generator. General cruising will most likely be at about 40% throttle. I'm trying to get 4-5 hours cruising time per charge.

So basically I will need one combiner for solar and one for wind but I do not need one for  the generator because it is a single source. Then I will need one charge controller per source.

Next question: (I think I know the answer) The charge controller can only charge one battery bank at a time, right? So If I do two battery banks I will need six controllers. If I stick with one battery bank I will only need three charge controllers. Are there any issues with having two charge controllers on one source?

TomW

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1415
  • Nullius in Verba
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 08:59:23 AM »
Ok I don't know where that guy with the sun glasses came from, but that was suppose to be eight of the 305 watt solar panels.

if you type in an 8 and a  ) close together you get this 8)


So thats where the guy with the sun glasses came from.

I can fix it if you like.

Tom
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 09:01:44 AM by TomW »
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

Halfcrazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2386
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 10:29:30 AM »
I would stick with a single battery bank for multiple reasons.

Then you need a combiner for the PV yes. As far as the wind goes it depends on how you are hooking it up
Changing the way wind turbines operate one smoke filled box at a time

Vic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 11:16:13 AM »
Next question: (I think I know the answer) The charge controller can only charge one battery bank at a time, right? So If I do two battery banks I will need six controllers. If I stick with one battery bank I will only need three charge controllers. Are there any issues with having two charge controllers on one source?

You are correct -- each isolated battery BANK needs its own Charge Controller.

BUT,  one charge controller can accept a number of Strings of PV modules.  Each of these strings will be connected in parallel.  And,  generally,  if there are three or more of these strings,   each of them will need a circuit breaker of fuse to protect them in the case of a fault in one or more of the PV modules in a string.

Here is a software Tool for the Classic Charge Controller that helps one size strings of PVs:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/sizingTool/displaySizing.php

And for the new KID Charge Controller ( a smaller CC that has less power output)  here is the Tool for it:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/sizingTool_kid/index.php

Here is an info page for the KID CC:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=530&productCatName=Charge Controllers - KID&productCat_ID=43&sortOrder=1&act=p

In thinking about your boat project,   am not too certain that this largish boat will  be very speedy,  or have very much endurance.  Just using round numbers,  a 5 kW motor would have about 5-ish HP output,  if very efficient,  perhaps a bit more.  The 9 kW generator  will output less than 10 Hp.  If the wind turbines are going to produce significant power,  then the boat may well have trouble making significant progress  due to its wind load,  and so  on.

Sounds like a fun and interesting project,   and probably I am missing some of the significant details,  but just my read on things.     Have Fun!   Vic
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 11:27:14 AM by Vic »
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

mcawthon

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 05:13:22 PM »
I think it will be fun too. I am not a "go fast" guy. I'm hopping the boat will cruise nicely at 8 knots and get up to 12 if I need it to. Also the electric motors are rated at over 5kw continuous just under 10kw peak and there will be two of them. I think I will do one bank of to keep things simple.

TomW

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1415
  • Nullius in Verba
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 05:49:04 PM »
Maybe I missed it but driving a pump or a prop?

Interesting project.

Tom
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

w7eryron

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 11:07:57 AM »
Hello all, as a follow-up to this thread I am including some info on my own hybrid electric boat project.

My boat hull is long and fairly narrow - 35' LOA, 8'beam, 18"draft, about 7,000 lbs displacement - looks kinda like a very big canoe.  It is very easily driven. I originally built the boat in 1982 as a shallow-water sailboat. Over the past winter and summer I removed the masts and substantially redid the layout - we look like a picnic boat now.

After using Skeneś Elements of Yacht Design (book) to do the calculations, here is what I ended up with:

1360w of solar panels in 4 large 340w panels - 2 strings of two running nominally at 50+v.
1 Kid controller
1 48v battery bank, 440ah. (I removed the lead ballast and replaced with lead acid batteries)
1 Torqeedo 4000w outboard motor, 48v
various DC-DC converters to also get useful 12v for lights and radios etc, and some charge to a small 12v house battery bank

Results:

(under no wind and no current conditions)
500w input to motor = about 2.8-3 knots boat speed
1100w input to motor = 4.1 knots speed  (my normal planned cruising speed)
4000w input to motor = 6.8 knots speed (my theoretical maximum is about 7.5)

Frankly, I was a bit skeptical when I did the calculations, but in fact, the boat is performing better than I had calculated.  I am very happy with the system.  It is great fun to be able to just untie and drive out onto the river without worrying about gas or spills or pollution or motor noise or lack of wind (my boat used to be powered by sails and oars - getting a little too old for that level of exercise).  In most of my runs so far, rarely does the Kid leave ¨float" status. It also is really satisfying to see 1000 watts going into the batteries from the Kid with 1000 watts going out to drive the boat.

tecnodave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 615
  • Learn something new every day
Re: Hybrid Electric Boat
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 01:08:41 AM »
Mcawthon,

You cannot connect multiple strings of panels to one combiner then to two controllers if that was your thinking. The controllers will need their own separate panels/combiners. The two controllers will not be able to sweep the panels to find the maximum power point. Basically a MPPT controller will need its own power source. The generator will not need a MPPT controller if it is a battery charging generator.
The wind part will need its own controller but since I have no experience with modern permanent magnet wind generators so I will not comment on that part of your design

Personally I think that you are designing too complex a system for a newcomer to alternate energy.
Keep it simple, I do understand the thinking in dual systems.....I have two 2 kW solar systems which can be paralleled but I have been doing electricity commercially for 50 years, I use the power for medically necessity so I have 100% redundancy, I can't pull out the oars. The more complex the system the harder it is to diagnosis a fail mode. Keep it simple!

Stay tuned here many other electric junkies here have very good advice.

David
#1 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24volt L-16 Rolls-Surette S-530, MS4024 & Cotek ,  C-40 dirv.cont. for hot water
#2 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24 volt L-16 Interstate,Brutus Inv.
#3 Kid/WBjr 2 Suntech 280 24v AGM 105 a.h. Exeltech Inv.
#4 Kid/WBjr 2 Suntech 280 12v AGM 105 a.h.