Size of Panel Mount breaker

Started by Kerry, May 26, 2014, 08:55:08 PM

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Kerry

The description for the E-Panel Lite 125A MNE125LT presently en route to Hawaii reads: "Includes battery breaker, pre-wired AC input/output/bypass assembly, AC and DC terminal busbars and 500 amp shunt."

Is the included "battery breaker" the same as the recommended disconnect/breaker I'm supposed to have between the Combiner Box and the Inverter? Is the "included battery breaker" the same as the MidNite Solar MNEDC80 80A 125VDC Panel Mount Breaker?

Thanks,

Kerry

My system:

(4) 250w PV panels with MC4 male & female connectors on each 3' 12 awg wire. (each panel is rated 30.1v, 8.3 amp).
(4) 6v, 232 amp Deep Cycle batts configured for 12v using 2/0 cables.
(1) Flexmax 80
(1) ProWatt SW 1000 Inverter
(1) Midnite Solar e-panel part MNE125ALT
(1) Midnite Solar-MNPV6 Combiner Box with up to (6) 15 amp fuses.
SnapNRack fastening system.

Vic

Hi Kerry,

Am certain that the 125 A included breaker in the e-panel that you noted is the battery-to-inverter breaker.  It is an E-series breaker,  and considerably larger,  physically,  than the MNEDC 80 A breakers.

Think that the 125 A breaker is the same size as noted in this drawing:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/EA1-X0-17-708-22A-ZB.pdf

Here is the drawing of the smaller MNEDC breakers,  such as the 80 A:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/CA1-X0-17-767-321-L.pdf

The breaker that you should have between the CC output and the battery  should (probably) be an MNEDC.  It is also possible that the DIN rail breakers could fit,  and if that is the case,  this would be in the MNEPV series.  In either case,  follow the manuals for the correct sizing of either of these breakers to match the capabilities of the system that you are building.

I have not studied the particular e-panel that you are going to use,  FWIW. Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

Kerry

#2
Thanks Vic,

I'll check out the link (drawing) later this evening.

Kerry

UpDate:

Re: "The breaker that you should have between the CC output and the battery  should (probably) be an MNEDC. " I'm assuming you mean a MNEDC80 80A 125VDC Panel Mount Breakerâ€"I ask because I'm also assuming the breaker that comes with the Lite panel is also a Midnite breakerâ€"if yes, I'll order a MNEDC80 80A 125VDC Panel Mount Breaker. Can you tell by looking at the components of my system if I will be able to use the DC Breaker  that comes with the e-panel with my system?

Thanks,

Kerry

tecnodave

#3
Kerry,

I believe that the panel you have coming uses din rail breakers , These are supplied by MidNite as the MNEPV breakers. The MNDC breakers are panel mount. They will not directly mount in this box.
I have seen somewhere that there is a adapter kit that does allow MNDC breakers to mount but as I have never done this don't take my word on it. I do not remember which panel this adapter was for  but it is much easier to use the din rail breakers.

On the 125 amp breaker , it is a bit high current for that inverter but a 100 or 125 amp breaker will protect that inverter. As to your system , it is a bit on the small side , in my opinion I would use the single space MNEPV 63 amp breaker and set Classic output to < 63 amps as you probably should not have a charge current more than that for 2 banks of
"GC-2" batteries but you could use a larger MNEPV breaker but these use 2 spaces in the din rail.
I believe that two space din rail breakers are available rated at 80 and 100 amps in the MNEPV line of breakers.

It all depends on how much you will "grow" your system over time.

Personally I am using both types. I use MNDC line for all loads over 40 amps and MNEPV line for my smaller DC loads and pv input breakers. This does require separate boxes but I am using MidNite quad boxes for 4 panel mount MNDC breakers and Big Baby boxes for my MNEPV breakers.

My system is constantly changing as I do admit being a "tecno-junkie" so I keep it modular for easier changes.

td

<edit>  I missed that you are using OB charge controller not the Classic but I would assume the OB also output current limiting in some from but I nave little experience with OB cc's
#1 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24volt L-16 Rolls-Surette S-530, MS4024 & Cotek ,  C-40 dirv.cont. for hot water
#2 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24 volt L-16 Interstate,Brutus Inv.
#3 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 4/6 P
#4 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 2S 2/3 P

zoneblue

Its my view that you should always use a panel mount version for the classic output breaker. The reasons are two:
- it has more secure electrical connection, lug and post
- they are bidirectional, important for this application as output over current will blow it one way, controller fault will blow it the other way.

I know its dammed pain to run a mix of breaker types, but there you have it. You cant fight the facts.
6x300W CSUN, ground mount, CL150Lite, 2V/400AhToyo AGM,  Outback VFX3024E, Steca Solarix PL1100
http://www.zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar

SM-Viper

Hi all. Does anyone know what size battery lug to use with this 125a breaker?
12v Off grid backup system and "playground"
(4) 245 watt Solar World panels 2x2
(2) 6v Deka 215 AH golf cart batteries series
(1) Kid CC
(1) MNDC125 DC Disconnect, all 2/0 wire
wbjr and 500A shunt all breakers
(1) MNPV3 combiner box.

Vic

#6
SM-V,

Both the MidNite Solar site and the Reseller -- WindSun -- state  " 1/4 Studs ".   Believe that this means 1/4" studs:
http://www.solar-electric.com/installation-parts-and-equipment/midnite/cipr1/high-amperage-inverter-breakers.html

The manufacturer Data Sheets show 1/4" Studs up to 120 Amp rating.

You might plan on 1/4",  but if you also had 5/16" lugs on hand,  you would probably be OK.  Smaller rated breakers that are still E-Frame sizes  definitely use 1/4" studs.  I do not have an e-panel here to check.

FWIW,   Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

SM-Viper

Thanks Vic. I'll give the 5/16" a try as I have some of those on hand.  I searched for that answer for a while. Don't know how I missed it. Thanks again!
12v Off grid backup system and "playground"
(4) 245 watt Solar World panels 2x2
(2) 6v Deka 215 AH golf cart batteries series
(1) Kid CC
(1) MNDC125 DC Disconnect, all 2/0 wire
wbjr and 500A shunt all breakers
(1) MNPV3 combiner box.

Robin

The E-Panel lite wiall accept up to six 1/2" wide MNEPV and MNEAC din rail breakers. On the other side of the E-PAnel you will see three knockouts for the 3/4" wide MNEDC panel mount breakers.
Robin Gudgel