Author Topic: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details  (Read 2695 times)

IanHarrison

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Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« on: June 13, 2014, 11:29:54 PM »
Hi, first thanks for a great and informative web site.  Beats the socks of all others I have seen.
After much research, I have settled on the installation of a Off Grid system consisting of the following:
- 6kW PV array (4 strings of 6ea 250W Poly PV panels), ground frame mounted for unshaded location;
- two MN Classic 250 MPPT regulators (one or both a Lite), wired for two strings each;
- Sunny Island 8.0H Invertor Charger;
- 48V 80kWhr Flood cell battery bank;
I have found your wiring diagram for a similar system which was a great help, now a few details so I can order the bits.  I also check this with your calculator for strings  :)

1. Classic Lite does not have Arc protection.  What benefits does this bring (ie what sort of faults, what damage can they do);  will help me decide on using Lites at all.
2. The first post in this section (Sept 2012), Bob indicated there were developments happening with software for a Classic+Lite combination communications so that the Classic will set up both Classic and Lite, and report status of both.  Are those functions now available.
3.  I will connect all of this to my local home network (Both Classic/Lite and Sunny Island), Are all necessary (not a big issue, it is ports on a router);
4. Looking to buy the SMA/MN communications Box (MNSICOMM).  With these interconnected, do I still need to connect all three to home network or does SI take over all status and set up?
5. Does the Classics/Lites/MNSICOMM come with the cables and Terminations needed to interconnect them all or will additional Modbus Cables and Terminations be needed.
6. Battery Temperature Monitor.  Is this included with Classic...
6a. If not do I need to Buy one, or two.
6b. If one, which Classic/Lite do I connect it two. 
7. WhizBangJnr.  I see benefits of monitoring actual currents in or out of Battery, especially as the Sunny Boy could be pulling 9kW+ out of Battery/Classics times (30min surge).  Does the WhizBangJnr and the Shunt come with Classic/Lites.
7a. If not Do I only need one WhizBangJnr (which Classic do I connect it to) and does the WhizBangJnr come with shunt or do I need to buy those separately.
8.  Wiring diagram for SI 8.0H + 2x MN-Classic-250.  Two SPD300 are between the +ve and -ve PV input to each Classic, the third SPD300 is between the Active input (ie Generator) and Active output of the SI 8.0H (in fact these are connected when in Bypass mode when disconnected from SI 8.0H)  Is this intended (not sure if this is clamping surges between Red and Black, or between Red and Earth, and Black and earth in which case is OK). (PS your bypass switch is labelled upside down)

9. Any plan for a Android version of Monitoring software (can then use a tablet as a remote monitor).

A suggestion, it might be useful to include a list of what is in the box with each item (sorry if it is there and I missed it).

Thanks, sorry for all the questions but look forward to your answers.  Hope to get all of this on order next week.

Ian

tecnodave

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Re: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2014, 02:25:43 PM »
Ian,

Welcome to the best support website there is!

I will answer a few of your questions that I know:

1). Arc fault protection will detect faulty wiring / shorts / arc in short order. Will prevent further damage.

2) yes, the Classic does have communications with other classics and lites on net.

3) not an issue

4)don't know, I'll let others answer this one

5) cables do not come with Classic but do not know about comm box. These are flat phone cable. Connectors are 6 wire, RJ-11 connector. I think only 4 wires are used.

6)BTM  is included with Classic

6b). Classics will share the data from one if BTSNET is on

7)<edit! corrected info >.  Whizbang jr does come with Classic, but shunt must be purchase desperately,  Classics share this info, you only need one pair ( WBjr & shunt)

8)I will pass on that question but I think that you have it right, we do not lave much lightning here

9)I believe that the Android version of the Local Control panel has been released but the iOS version is still in beta and not ready yet. The PC/ MAC version are full release.

On to one thing....how far is your panel arrays from your charge controller,  if you are close ,less than 100 feet you might want to consider more strings with fewer panels on each as the Classic will be a bit more efficient there, but if you have long wire runs, the higher voltage strings might pay off in less voltage drop in wiring.

Generally speaking, the V@pmax should bt batt voltage + 12 volts at a minimum and not more than about 3 times batt voltage to keep in the higher efficiency ranges.

There are some good charts in the Classic manual that show this relationship.

td
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 06:39:56 PM by tecnodave »
#1 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24volt L-16 Rolls-Surette S-530, MS4024 & Cotek ,  C-40 dirv.cont. for hot water
#2 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24 volt L-16 Interstate,Brutus Inv.
#3 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 4/6 P
#4 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 2S 2/3 P

Vic

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Re: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2014, 05:42:05 PM »
Hi Dave,

As of about two months ago,  the WBjr ships with every standard Classic (not with the Classic Lites.

FWIW,   Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

tecnodave

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Re: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2014, 06:41:09 PM »
Vic,

Thanks , I remember reading that now. I bought my Classic in January.

td
#1 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24volt L-16 Rolls-Surette S-530, MS4024 & Cotek ,  C-40 dirv.cont. for hot water
#2 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24 volt L-16 Interstate,Brutus Inv.
#3 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 4/6 P
#4 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 2S 2/3 P

Vic

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Re: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2014, 10:58:47 PM »
Hi td,

I have three Classic 150s,   all date to a few years ago.   Was very happy to buy the WBjr,  at about US$50 ea delivered,  it was a great addition to all systems here.   Thanks MN!!   Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

tecnodave

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Re: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 12:39:25 AM »
Vic,

I agree , the Whizbang has become a nessecary tool now that I have it. I've had Tri metrics few years but the Whizbang takes up a level in data. I bought one for the kid as well as it does a different battery bank.  I'm not stressing battery banks near so much with good info.

td
#1 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24volt L-16 Rolls-Surette S-530, MS4024 & Cotek ,  C-40 dirv.cont. for hot water
#2 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24 volt L-16 Interstate,Brutus Inv.
#3 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 4/6 P
#4 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 2S 2/3 P

IanHarrison

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Re: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 02:56:53 AM »
Thanks for all of your responses, I have had this on hold for a while whilst I ponder the cost of batteries (and got on with other services like water, sewage shed, hose design) but now getting back to it.
1. If I have a Classic and Classic lite, are they both covered by the arc protection of the Classic.

Any chance of an answer on my original questions 4 and 8 please

Interesting point on relation between battery voltage and string voltage.  I was going for the higher voltage strings to reduce power loss between array and MPPT (higher volts, lower amps, lower losses for same power delivery) but did not click as to the reduced efficiency in the MPPT when string voltage exceeded 3 x battery voltage (about 3 x 48V gives 144V in my case) so sticking with Classic 150 might be the deal.  I will model my transmission losses between MPPT and start of array (23m and 28m for the two sub arrays) and analyse more strings with lower V vse the fewer strings with higher V and compare for efficiency and installation cost.

I am also looking to reduce Battery size, and invest the saving in a 3kW vertical wind generator (over the last 6 months we realise out site has a nice breeze a lot of the time).  The greater diversification of energy means less reliance on battery.   Are there any suitable MPPT trackers chargers compatible wind generators, and can be paralleled with the Classics and play nicely with them.

boB

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Re: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 03:14:43 AM »

Hi Ian.   Thanks for bumping this one up.

>>>4. Looking to buy the SMA/MN communications Box (MNSICOMM).  With these interconnected, do I still need to connect all three to home network or does SI take over all status and set up?<<<

No need for any Ethernet home network.  The MNSICOMM box connects to the S.I.  and then the MNSICOMM connects to the the first Classic, that first Classic to the second Classic, and that to the third Classic.   All of the Classics receive their instructions from the S.I. through the MNSICOMM box.

Will hopefully get # 8  tomorrow. 

boB

K7IQ

zoneblue

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Re: Classic+Classic Lite plus SUnny Boy 8.0H details
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2015, 04:59:41 PM »
You are right i think about batterys getting smaller. However there is a limit to to what you can do. An 8kW inverter needs a stiff enough bank to support its current demands. And battery technology matters there. In particular LiFePo4, and then next is AGM with their lower internal resistance can support the surge loading with less voltage sag. Thus allowing a smaller bank.

In practical terms you are looking at something like (for 48V) and Flooded: 100Ah/ inverter kW, 0.2C discharge. So, for flooded plus 8kW sunny island 800Ah is about right. For AGM you might go up to 0.3-0.5C and for lithium  maybe 1C. I would be doing some serious math on the cost benefit of the lithium v flooded.
6x300W CSUN, ground mount, CL150Lite, 2V/400AhToyo AGM,  Outback VFX3024E, Steca Solarix PL1100
http://www.zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar