Tin Whisker Effect

Started by Westbranch, March 27, 2015, 05:24:27 PM

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Westbranch

How has this issue, Tin Whiskers, affected the production of the Classic and other MN products?

It seems to explain the anecdotal evidence that a lot of consumer electronics products have about a 6 - 10 Year life, used or otherwise...

http://www.aviationtoday.com/av/commercial/System-Design-Death-by-Tin-Whiskers_76599.html#.VRXJoo6lfuc
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
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Mtn Don

 That's a very interesting article. 
Northern NM, 624 watts PV, Kid CC, 24 volt GC-2 battery bank, VFX 3524M inverter/charger

TomW

And, again, politics trumps sensibility.

Sorry. Had to say it.  ;D
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

RossW

Quote from: TomW on March 28, 2015, 06:02:04 AM
And, again, politics trumps sensibility.

Sorry. Had to say it.  ;D

I understood lead-free exemptions were available for medical and avionics applications (amongst others).
Has that changed? (But you're dead right, Tom - nobody seems to factor in "sensibility" in most of these BS decisions!)
3600W on 6 tracking arrays.
7200W on 2 fixed array.
Midnite Classic 150
Outback Flexmax FM80
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16 x LiFePO4 300AH cells
Selectronics SP-PRO 481 5kW inverter
Fronius 6kW AC coupled inverter
Home-brew 4-cyl propane powered 14kVa genset
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mike90045

Quote from: Mtn Don on March 27, 2015, 08:06:37 PM
That's a very interesting article. 

It's freaking scarey.  Root cause of car accidents and such.    I'd thought the auto mfgs had taken the lead spacing and annealing precautions into account when designing, but apparently not.
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

vtmaps

A little bit off topic... this subject reminds me of 'dendritic mossing' in batteries (where lead 'whiskers' develop between the plates and short out a battery cell).  I have read that brief (as in pulses) very high loads on a battery can 'burn' up these whiskers and prolong the life of a shorted battery (assuming the short is caused by mossing). 

Back on topic... I wonder if there might be some way to vaporize the tin whiskers with high current pulses...

--vtMaps

mike90045

Quote from: vtmaps on March 29, 2015, 08:23:11 AM
.....

Back on topic... I wonder if there might be some way to vaporize the tin whiskers with high current pulses...
--vtMaps 

Sure, but the op amp input that was shorted by the whisker will be fried.  it's even a problem in Data Centers with raised floors, the framework is zinc plated to prevent rust (cold air conditioned air)  and hairlike whiskers form, get blown around by airflow, and lodge in power supplies or random places on circuit boards.
http://ecmweb.com/power-quality-archive/how-do-zinc-whiskers-affect-todays-data-centers
But at least, it's repairable on earth, and it's not in space.
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

Westbranch

#7
More from the same doc Mike posted

See page 25,26,27 of that doc, can't seem to get it copied right now...
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

Westbranch

and MORE....  page 36

Drywall Sulfur Fumes Blamed for A.C. & Electrical Equipment failures

Pollutants: Not Always in Industrial Settings
• Chinese Drywall Cited in Building Woes
â€" The drywall is emitting sulfur-based gases that are corroding air
conditioner coils, computer wiring and metal picture frames.
• Drywall blamed for A.C. failures
â€" Air-conditioning coils have turned black, along with wiring, piping
and even silver jewelry.
â€" "We have definitely identified that a combination of sulfide gases
are the cause of the corrosion," said Robert P. DeMott, managing
principal of Environ.
â€" "Foul odors reported by people living in the homes may also be
caused by the combination of sulfur gases being released from the
drywall,
• Chinese drywall class action lawsuit
â€" LEE COUNTY, Fla. - The Lawsuit was filed against Knauf Plasterboard
Tianjin Co., LTD, The Knauf Group, Rothchilt International Limited
and the Banner Supply Company.
â€" Known as "Chinese Drywall", it was manufactured oversees and
was made from waste materials. As a result, it emits sulfur
compounds that corrode copper wiring and other metals found in
homes. Copper Corroded by Sulfur flumes
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

TimBandTech

I was going to say that because they conformal coat their boards that there is no issue with tin whisker effect, but then I bumped into this:

https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/reference/tech_papers/kadesch2001-article-dangers-of-tin-whiskers-and-conformal-coat-study.pdf

Here is to dendritic moss. I installed a desulfator on a brand new bank of RS-2ks33ps batteries (48 volts worth) but I have no idea if it is enough for them.

Quote from: vtmaps on March 29, 2015, 08:23:11 AM
A little bit off topic... this subject reminds me of 'dendritic mossing' in batteries (where lead 'whiskers' develop between the plates and short out a battery cell).  I have read that brief (as in pulses) very high loads on a battery can 'burn' up these whiskers and prolong the life of a shorted battery (assuming the short is caused by mossing). 

Back on topic... I wonder if there might be some way to vaporize the tin whiskers with high current pulses...

--vtMaps
24 SURRETTE 2-KS-33PS 2V 2500AH @48VDC, 7kW STC PV  (three arrays) 3 Midnite Classics, one with Waste Not High diversion driving 3kW of heating element at 48VDC through three SSR circuits, Two 6kW XW inverters

boB


Fortunately we don't have much problem with tin whiskers because we still use good old leaded solder.

So far anyway.


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