Need help with LiFePO4 battery bank set up

[LiFeP04_Only]

Hello, i'm a newb who wants a 48V 400AH battery bank that would be powered exclusively by 120V via a Honda inverter generator or simply by the 120V from my wall.  I would use 16 3.2V Calbs in series.  I do not want to cut any corners i want a top of the line inverter and battery charger. 

I am hoping to get some advice on battery care and monitoring, like how to do a BMS set up for it (I've never even heard of BMS till a few days ago).  When i see people selling complete packages they say 'Don't worry you can not over charge or over discharge because there are safety measures in place.'  How do they set up those safety measures?

I would like to buy all the bells & whistles that will allow me to set this system up like that.  As for some background I am not totally ignorant, i own a meter, i can test for voltages, and wire the batteries etc.  So i am totally cool with occasional maintenance (but please teach me what the maintenance would be lol).  However i don't want a system that would require ANY maintenance if there is a device that i can buy that would negate that maintenance!!  I love everything i read about LiFePO4s but i have zero experience with them, i want to really understand things before i buy a single piece of the system.  Thanks!

[zoneblue]

Those batteries arent particularly cheap, and also pretty easy to destroy. The usual advice that is often given is to learn on a smaller bank say 40Ah. Get a feel for top and bottom balancing, band cycling, cell level monitors, optional balance boards, LVD, HVD etc.

Also you dont say what your goal is. Always helps to know what your trying to achieve.

[LiFeP04_Only]

They are easy to destroy?  How do you mean, by over discharging?  LiFePO4's appeal to me is the 5,000 life cycles if kept over 30%.  I'm not challenging you I'm just trying to understand, how would I destroy them with a good BMS and good inverter?

[Mtn Don]

Overcharging and over discharging can kill LFP much quicker than the same sins would damage FLA.

If the cells are well balanced when placed into service and the BMS does its job everything should be okay. So it would seem the BMS quality is of paramount importance.

Another LFP killer is charging when the battery is below freezing.

I do like many things about LFP. I'll need new batteries in a few years so am very interested in long term experiences of many people before that day rolls around.

[Mtn Don]

48V 400AH battery bank that would be powered exclusively by 120V via a Honda inverter generator or simply by the 120V from my wall

Q?    No solar?  And the last part of that quote (120 V from my wall) confuses me.  Charging the LFP pack from existing 120 volt from where/what?   

[LiFeP04_Only]

48V 400AH battery bank that would be powered exclusively by 120V via a Honda inverter generator or simply by the 120V from my wall

Q?    No solar?  And the last part of that quote (120 V from my wall) confuses me.  Charging the LFP pack from existing 120 volt from where/what?

No solar.  My permanent residence does not appeal to solar.  This battery bank would go with me to my often trips to no man's land, I would charge them from my wall at home before leaving, and recharge via generator while there.  Another reason for no solar is the bulkyness added by lugging panels in my truck. 

In addition it would be back up power in case of outages at main residence, so my wall would charge it about a mandatory once a month.  So why not just settle for the generator?  Because of the gasoline factor.  And also because at my home I do not trust it not being stolen while outside, I'd have to operate the generator ONLY when it was in my sights.  So a back up power system being secure in my home is a must


EDIT...
Help me to be clear please...LiFePO4 rated for 5,000 cycles if not discharged under 30% correct?  Now if I have solar panels constantly charging the batteries I will surely get way less time out of the LFPs as apposed to only charging them up either when needed or a mandatory once a month?  Is my thinking correct hear?  I get confused when people talk about the life of LFPs in terms of time instead of cycles

EDIT AGAIN LOL...
Scratch everything, you guys are right.  I just found out that ALL batteries have BOTH a calender life and a cycle life, and it is which ever comes first.  Damn, my entire plan and understanding has been that it was only cycles.  That was a very important piece of info that I wasn't getting (probably so basic to you guys that you didn't even think to mention it lol).  Over and out, back to the drawling board for me

[dgd]

No solar.  My permanent residence does not appeal to solar.  This battery bank would go with me to my often trips to no man's land, I would charge them from my wall at home before leaving, and recharge via generator while there.  Another reason for no solar is the bulkyness added by lugging panels in my truck. 

Do you know what sixteen 400aH CALBs weight?
And a decent inverter charger will also need several people to move.
I suppose your trips to no mans land would be ok if you take a small forklift or hiab crane
Somehow I don't think you will be moving these too often  . Or did you really mean 40aH cells?

Also batteries do not have a calendar life, life depends on usage or non usage

Dgd

[LiFeP04_Only]

Yeah this is now a moot point now I wasn't aware that calender life mattered I thought it was only cycle life, this sucks

...i would have had the whole layout on a nifty cart of some kind with rugged wheels, it would of been fun constructing it.  Yeah I meant 400AH, but now my plan is 0AH lol

[mike90045]

They are easy to destroy?  How do you mean, by over discharging?  LiFePO4's appeal to me is the 5,000 life cycles if kept over 30%.  I'm not challenging you I'm just trying to understand, how would I destroy them with a good BMS and good inverter? 

Discharge pack below 10% remaining runs the risk of destroying low capacity cells in the pack.
Charging the pack above 90% full runs the risk of destroying low capacity cells in the pack.
Charging a very low voltage pack at normal charging rate (very low pack need  very slow recharge to prevent damage)
Recharging a pack when it is cold (below frost)  Since packs have little self heating, you cannot count on them staying warm

[mike90045]

....
Also batteries do not have a calendar life, life depends on usage or non usage........

And where do you get this idea from ?   Even sealed "dry charged" batteries have a shelf life expire in less than 10 years.

[dgd]

....
Also batteries do not have a calendar life, life depends on usage or non usage........

And where do you get this idea from ?   Even sealed "dry charged" batteries have a shelf life expire in less than 10 years.

Have you ever seen a new battery with an expiry date on it? or even documentation that says a battery has a clearly stated calendar life?
As I said the actual life will depend on usage or non usage - ie for a deep cycle battery the depth of discharge and number of discharge cycles.
The CALBs I have seen and used have never stated a calendar life but base life expectancy on cycles
I have actually seen a 520Ah lead acid battery manufactured in 1958 still being used in a 1960,s trailer truck in 2014.

dgd

[mike90045]

I have actually seen a 520Ah lead acid battery manufactured in 1958 still being used in a 1960,s trailer truck in 2014.

forgive me, I have spoken in error. 
Until this day, I firmly believed both lead acid and Li batteries had a finite lifetime, that could be extended with gentle cycle stress.

[dbcollen]

Batteries definitely have a calendar life, due to self discharge you will need to charge them, beginning the cycle count.

[dgd]

I have actually seen a 520Ah lead acid battery manufactured in 1958 still being used in a 1960,s trailer truck in 2014.

forgive me, I have spoken in error. 
Until this day, I firmly believed both lead acid and Li batteries had a finite lifetime, that could be extended with gentle cycle stress.

Well it appears that I am not understanding what the term 'calendar life ' means.
I thought it means an expiry date, a calendar date, a specific date when the life of the battery is over and replacement is needed.
Of course I understand a battery does not last forever but to say it has a calendar life just does not make semantic sense to me.
Sorry if I upset anyone, I need more coffee... 

Dgd