off grid in germany

[binkino]

so, today they sold the last of the batteries I wanted.

NEVER rely on Postbank, if you are in a situation to need quick financial help.
They advertice to make this in 2 days possible. But it is allways a special situation, so many customers... yeah ...sure.
Everytime.

So now I have all time in the world.

frustrated.

[binkino]

please correct my thought if I am wrong (hope I write it in not a too wrong English... so you understand it haha)


Let's say I find a battery with max charging amps of 50 amps.


The East Classic is limited to 50 amps, has no WBJr. All is fine, it outputs max. 50 amp.
Energy needed by the intverter, decreases the amps for charging amps from the East Classic, but that doesn't matter.

The South Classic has the WBJr. and is also set to max. 50 amps for charging.
The WBJr. on the South Classic meassures the amps flowing to the battery.
If the East Classic delivers full 50 amps, and ~ 45 amps arrive to the battery, the South Classic will only output so many amps, that it stays below or max. the 50 amps at the WBJr.
If the East Classic falls below 50 amps, the South Classic will increase the amps, but stops at 50 amps at the WBJr.


As the wanted batteries are sold out, I am now looking for other batteries in a range I still have the cash and can expand that later. But can use the system again, asap the sun is back ... actually only raining and small storms ...
May be a 5kWh at ~ 2.000,- â,¬ ... will see.

[ClassicCrazy]

To me it seems like you want to put your two Classics in Follow me so that when the battery is full according to your voltage limits , then it shuts off charging for the day.
I am still trying to understand the whole lithium charging schemes.
You are probably wise to get some lithium batteries now because some of the suppliers here in USA are advertising coming price increases .
There are a lot of details involved in the lithium battery packs now for sale. They type of cells that they use, the type of bms they have, support , etc.
But some of it is a bit of a gamble I think since how can anyone truly know what they have until they get it. There are usa lithium battery companies that put their own batteries together and test everything and are sure of their suppliers. But their batteries cost probably 2 to 4 times as much or more . In the end you can only go by what is really available on the market , the amount of $$$ willing to spend which also relates to the risk we are willing to take for the lower cost imports.
I read comments on some of the tear down videos and people really trust some of the people doing the tear downs even though they have been getting the sample batteries for free from companies. They also may be getting some income from their promotion. So we have to take everything into consideration. The tear down info is valuable, but the testing done is minimal.
It just kind of sucks though if we find out we passed up a good deal, but it also sucks if we got a product that does not hold up over the years.
Hard choices for those with limited $$ resources !
Larry

[binkino]

thanks

I am still not sure about the FOLLOW ME, I also haven't take the time to read the manual again..

What do you think about these SOK Batteries? They ship a unit for 80,-
and have a white case
But a 5 kWh for 2.100 is not a bad price
But ... also no batteries in stock. Not a single one...
June back in stock... I wrote them an email and asked, if there is a way to get at least one unit now.
(There is allways something in stock. Just in case of a warranty claim and so on )
And the have hood looking terninals, not these mysterious connectors like the Pylontech and have to buy their expensive calbes ...

[ClassicCrazy]

thanks

I am still not sure about the FOLLOW ME, I also haven't take the time to read the manual again..

What do you think about these SOK Batteries? They ship a unit for 80,-
and have a white case
But a 5 kWh for 2.100 is not a bad price
But ... also no batteries in stock. Not a single one...
June back in stock... I wrote them an email and asked, if there is a way to get at least one unit now.
(There is allways something in stock. Just in case of a warranty claim and so on )
And the have hood looking terninals, not these mysterious connectors like the Pylontech and have to buy their expensive calbes ...

SOK are supposed to be good batteries.
Youtube channels with tear downs.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh85wOuqCsD3gh_lkAXbQEQ
https://www.youtube.com/c/CurrentConnected

[binkino]

yes 👍
I think, I will order them.

... 2 month without PV ...

[binkino]

nothing is having progress over here ...

i am tired now ... just thinking about taking 4 x 50Ah car 12v batteries, cost about 200,-
In the night it will switch back to grid.
But that would be better then having the system complete offline.

Actually I am paying 31ct/kWh (my contract ends in 01/2023, so it will be more expensive after.
Everything is getting more and more  expensive now)
But 200,- equals 650kWh electric energy
And they will not last long. But if I setup the system to run only on daylight, it might work for this year.

[ClassicCrazy]

Around here they sell a marine type deep cycle 12v battery for around $80 . Maybe rated 80 to 100 AH.
Probably not the best but would be a lot better than car battery - in case you can find some like that there.
I think the market for them is for people with boats - they use them to run electric trolling motors .
Too bad you aren't in US there are so many choices now for lithium batteries. Many are in stock.
Larry

[mike90045]

consider 6V 200Ah golf cart batteries.   Do they play golf anywhere near by, buy the batteries from the Clubhouse.

[Vic]

thanks

   ...   What do you think about these SOK Batteries? They ship a unit for 80,-
and have a white case
But a 5 kWh for 2.100 is not a bad price
But ... also no batteries in stock. Not a single one...
June back in stock... I wrote them an email and asked, if there is a way to get at least one unit now.
(There is allways something in stock. Just in case of a warranty claim and so on )
And the have hood looking terninals, not these mysterious connectors like the Pylontech and have to buy their expensive calbes ...

Hi binkino,

I have no personal experience with any server rack batteries.

First,  the construction of the SOK server batts looks beautiful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrPED4uPsFw

But, at 1:20 into the above video, Will Prowse details what needs to be done to Precharge filter capacitors (at least with larger inverters).  This a bit concerning to me  --  it seems that this should be a gentle, automatic process.

Some of us might forget to do the manual Precharge, when the lights have gone out at 2 AM, and we are anxious to get an inverter going again, after some fault, or something.

You might want to specifically ask the Distributor/supplier about this exact thing.  From what I've seen on Will's youtube videos for some SOK 12 V LiFePO4 batteries,  there was a reference to BMS FETs having been damaged from Precharge.  Some other suppliers of server batteries, have noted that, Precharge on their server batts IS automatic.

SOK appears to be a very good battery,  and I have been strongly considering buying some of their server rack batteries   ...   but would want to understand more about why this Precharge is not happening, automatically.

FWIW, Good Luck, Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

Vic ,
From Jakiper - I think it should be same for SOK if it has same bms in it.
1 BMS off and Main battery breaker off
2 Connect inverter cables to battery
3 Turn battery breaker on
4 Turn on Bms
5 Turn on Main breaker if you have more than 1 pcs/ Inverter/

I asked for clarification on step 5 though . Not sure if it means extra batteries or if that is where you first turn on breaker for the inverter ?
I would think inverter would already have breakers on  in Step 2

Larry

[Vic]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the info on Jakiper and other similar server rack batts.

If the ONLY time that the precharge must be done, is when commissioning the inverter, this does seem less risky to the BMS.

Quality inverters,  essentially never trip DC breakers on the battery side (or on the AC output side), if those breakers are correctly-sized.

BUT, it still seems to be a risk to the BMS, and it would seem, to me, at least, that this process should be fully automatic, unless, there is NO risk of harm to the BMS from not following the Precharge procedure.  Would believe, that these LiFePO4 server rack battery manufacturers would not mention a manual Precharge, if there was NO risk to the BMS, or battery, from not doing manual Precharge ...

Realize that, probably those who have been building and using Li batteries with power inverters, have been doing manual Precharge, all along.

Dunno,  back to regular programming.   Take care, thanks, Vic

[binkino]

so ... a small "update" in my situation ...

btw HAPPY EASTER ;-)


After a long time struggeling with me, wich of the last two options I choose, I decited zu buy the 10kWh battery pack (relabeled "ROSEN SOLAR")
I pick them up tomorrow noon. 300kms (190mi) to drive, yeah I know that should do it right and drive with my EV - also as the gas price is absolutely insane ... but this time I don't have the time (My Renault Zoe only has the small 22kWh battery. I choose this model and battery, as I don't need the 41kWh daily and would be a wast of ressources and money (I rent the battery)) so I must "bite in the sour apple" anyway - as we use to say.

There was also another offer from a private seller, but over 600km (3375mi) away from my home, that is close to the barrier to Noreway in Germany and too far to drive haha
And sending 2.500,- to someone I don't know, had a very tired conversation (replies all couple days - so not interested to sell the batteries? Pylontech ... and yesterday I received a warning message from ebay-kleinanzeigen (like craigslist), that the user was banned and some possible reassons why this happened ... you don't get real details ...)
Nope, I will not.


So two days ago I decited to buy the 10kWh battery, phoned the seller and made an appointment for picking the batetry up. So let's hope everything goes well.


There should be a instruction manual included, then I can confirm the steps how to bring such a battery in operation.
But I remember I have read that already like you write it.

I will  link the battery, after I have it in my house.

Weight: 100 kilos (220pounds...)





I just translated the site http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/faq.php?id=75 to German - if someone reads this here and want's to add it in the help section:

CLASSIC - LITHIUM - Wie stellt man den Classic so ein, dass er Lithiumbatterien lädt (archiviert)?
Zuletzt aktualisiert vor 7 Monaten
Ãœbersetzt ins Deutsche am 18.04.2022 von Binkino


Der Classic hat keine native Unterstützung für das Laden von Lithium-Akkupacks. Alles, was man tun kann ist, einige der Blei-Säure-Batterien-Einstellungen zu verwenden.

Der Classic kann Lithium-Akkupacks aufladen, die ein BMS (Battery Management System) installiert haben. Wir empfehlen und unterstützen das Laden von Lithium-Akkupacks ohne BMS nicht. „Balancer“ gelten nicht als BMS.

Die ABSORB-Einstellung ist die Spannung, die das BMS zum Laden der Batterie verlangt. Die ABSORBIERUNGSZEIT wird auf die benötigte Zeit in Minuten eingestellt. Manchmal wird dies auf einen niedrigen Wert eingestellt, da einige Lithiumbatterien (BMS) bei Erreichen dieser Spannung den Ladevorgang beenden möchten. Beim Classic ist die Minimumzeit 3 Minuten.
Die EQ-Einstellung wird im Allgemeinen nicht verwendet.

HINWEIS: Für den Ladevorgang ist hauptsächlich das BMS der Batterie zuständig. Der Classic kann nicht so eingerichtet werden, dass sichergestellt ist, dass JEDE Zelle korrekt geladen wird. Das Überladen einer Lithiumzelle kann katastrophale, sowie auch wirtschaftliche Folgen haben.

Die meisten Lithium-Batterien benötigen keine FLOAT-Spannung. Also muss diese auf einen niedrigeren Wert, also unterhalb der BMS Ladespannung, eingestellt werden. Weitere Informationen sind im zur Batterie dazu gehörigen Lithium-BMS-Handbuch zu finden. Es ist üblich, dass der Classic BATT OVER V meldet, was aber kein Grund zur Sorge ist. Dies bedeutet nur, dass die Batteriespannung über der FLOAT-Einstellung liegt und das Laden jetzt deaktiviert ist.

Der Classic hat jetzt ein paar weitere Funktionen, die für Lithium-Batteriesysteme von Nutzen sein können.
Lithium-Batterien benötigen im Allgemeinen keine Temperaturkompensation, wie Blei-Säure-Batterien. Das Einstellen von mV/degC/cell auf den niedrigsten Wert, ohne die Einstellung auf DISABLE umzustellen, ist ungefähr alles, was wir im Moment tun können. Dadurch funktioniert der BTS (Batterietemperatursensor) weiterhin und dies ermöglicht es uns, im LIMITS-MENÜ unter dem CHARGE-Menü im Classic eine Notfalltemperatur für HIGH BATTERY SHUTDOWN ("HOHE BATTERIEABSCHALTUNG") einzustellen. Wenn diese Temperatur gemessen wird, stoppt der Classic den Ladevorgang, um schlimmere Folgen zu verhindern.

Das andere Verwendungsmerkmal für Lithium und sein BMS ist der AUX-2-EINGANG, um den Classic zu zwingen, den Ladevorgang zu stoppen. Er wird im Handbuch als LOGIC INPUT LO und LOGIC INPUT HI beschrieben. Siehe das angehängte PDF.

Viele Lithium-Systeme verlangen, dass der Ladevorgang beim erreichen einer Spannung stoppt und bei einer anderen Spannung wieder beginnt. Dies würde erreicht, indem die ABSORBZEIT auf 4 Minuten eingestellt wird (3 Minuten ist die niedrigste Einstellung) und die REBULK-Spannung verwendet wird, um den Classic aufzufordern, wieder zu laden. REBULK wird im BATTERY MENU/ADVANCED. ABSORB TIME (BATTERIEMENÜ/ERWEITERT ABSORB TIME") wird unter CHGTIME eingestellt.

[binkino]

I will also try this project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlExe2zcifM
https://averagemaker.com/2018/03/wemos-d1-mini-setup.html
https://github.com/irekzielinski/Pylontech-Battery-Monitoring

It could work with the BMS ... as we thought earlier, there are not many BMSes out there.
And really they all look very similar.
On the 10kWh wall mount battery I plan to buy the only difference is the display (same buttons also) is located in the front face and the connectors are located at the underside.

Possible one guy in our Telegram Renault Zoe (EV) group can help me out to do the neccessary changes to the ESP program, so I can read out this BMS.
(yes, I will publish the code if changes were needed)

But this can't be that hard. Addresses and datas to sort out, what is what.

I have already ordered the parts... so fingers crossed

[binkino]

@VIC: yes that's also a concern I have.
My inverter can go in protect mode, if I overload it accidently again
Microwave, washing machine, coffee machine the same time, that happens ...
The inverter only can do 3.000 watts ...
So I had to go down in the basement/cellar (however the right term is it now...) and reset it manualy.
I bought a remote (a stupid switch, LEDs panel) I wanted to convert, so I can reset it by an Aux from the classic... but never done.
Interesting then to know, If I have to follow this pcocedere then also with the battery.
The inverter 48V side caps should still be charged ...