Midnite SPD's FAILED to Protect

[RefBum]

Hybrid solar system with Schneider Electric Conext XW+ 6848 inverters
1 x SPD300 installed at meter can. (Installed by power company when they installed the net meter)
1 x SPD300 installed on 20amp 2pole breaker in electrical panel
1 x SPD300 installed on 20amp 2pole breaker in electrical sub panel in shop
1 x SPD300 installed on input of each inverter. (x2)
1 x SPD300 installed on output of each inverter (x 2)
1 x SPD600 installed on input each Schneider Electric Conext 600volt/80amp charge controllers (x 2)
9 Midnite SPD's in total

The neighbor about 1/2mile down the road took a direct lightning hit to his home last night. He had a HEPD80 installed in his panel and suffered NO loss to any electronic devices. While at my house I suffered severe loss even though I have all these Midnite SPD's installed everywhere.
1 x 80" Family Room TV
1 x 65" Master Bedroom TV
3 x Roku 3
1 x 1 1/2HP pool pump
1 x Pool pump timer
1 x 6000BTU window AC in shop
1 x Coffee maker in kitchen
1 x Over the Range built in microwave
1 x Schneider Electric Conext Combox
1 x Schneider Electric Conext SCP
2 x Schneider XW+ 6848 inverters are down with fault codes, (I'm hoping that these can be cleared once the SCP and Combox are replaced)
1 x Linksys wireless router

When the power company was out last night the lineman said my electrician had all the SPD's installed correctly and he would have no idea why they failed to protect anything in the home. As of right now I'm not impressed and a bit upset with these SPD's

[dgd]

Hi RefBum,

That was nasty, hope nobody was shocked or injured
I hope your are well insured and can get the damaged stuff replaced. 
Lightening strikes and their associated power surges are sometimes just impossible to protect against

dgd

[Vic]

Hi RefBum,  welcome to the Forum,  unfortunate reason that you are posting now.

As you know,  lightning is quite random in how it behaves.  It DOES appear that you have taken many precautions.

In a comprehensive system,  like yours,  the way that grounds are managed can be quite important.

Assume that you must be Grid Interactive,  and the Grid must have  escorted the lightning/surges to you.

While lightning is becoming more common in our remote area,  compared to 15 years ago,  we thankfully are not in Lightning Alley.

Hope that the XW inverter/chargers are fine,  and as dgd said,  that ALL will be covered by good insurance.

Good luck,    Vic

[CDN-VT]

 RefBum
Sorry for your first post to be like this.
As the other two gents posted. NOW go check (YOU ) your grounds & neutrals are all tight etc. If not you , another sparky .
Lighting is WEIRD , Our boat was hit & losses were not what I would of thought.
I went to a farm that the neutral was iffy & some equipment had it's own ideas. It caused major problems intermittently.
That weak spot only showed up when pushed to the limits  ..
Sometimes your the better ground !

Glad your all ok & have got story's to share .

VT

[Halfcrazy]

Can you email me ryan@midnitesolar.com

I would like to get an understanding of the complete system as something does not seem right. I wonder if there is a bad ground or if the lightning came in on a communications line.

Ryan

[TomW]

Over the decades I have lost a massive pile of gear  to sky sparks. Everything from wall warts and appliances to submersible pumps and one strrike that literally blew a box with outlet out of the wall leaving a smoldering charred chunk of stud in the hole where it was mounted. That one hit the transformer on the meter pole in the yard next to the house.

Bottom line is: If you take a direct hit there is no device that can divert the massive surge it delivers.

Surge suppressors like the SPD can only effectively divert an induced pulse from a nearby strike. I feel that, ultimately,  a properly grounding system is essential to keep surges away from your gear. The problem is, few agree what "properly grounded" means

Sorry for your loss but that is why they sell insurance.

Good luck with the insurance adjuster. I would literally check anything connected to a wire that exits buildings. Some devices that appear fine may fail later from stress of the pulse.

Tom

[boB]

Lightning is typically a "common mode" voltage spike which is what the SPDs are supposed to protect against.

What this means is that all wires raise their voltage the same amount during the strike with respect to ground.
That is to say, Neutral and L1,  Neutral and L2,  L1,L2 (for 240 VAC) all with respect to earth ground.
What the SPD does is to keep (or try to keep) those "common" wires from raising too high above ground.
This is so that the common neutral and hot wires do not go higher than the chassis connection and have
the lightning induced voltage break-over the insulation system in that product.

Looking at your list of broken items, I see some that probably do not have a ground connection, for example
the LinkSys router.

One of two things I would guess happened here...  Either the lightning strike was  SO  close to your house
that NO amount of SPDs would protect against this type of strike,  OR...  Or, the strike made the
"differential" mode line voltage rise WAY above 120 VAC  and 240 VAC  which would  NOT be helped
very much by the SPDs.  The clamping voltage of a SPD300 is around 500 volts which is way lower
than any hipot voltage (insulation) test rating of those products but certainly not low enough to
clamp an AC line surge if that is what happened.

Did you talk with any other neighbors on your same transformer ?  Do you share a transformer with
another neighbor ?  If the HV lines in the neighborhood went too high, then even separate
transformers for homes in the neighborhood would most likely pass that differential spike surge
onto the others as well and I would think you would not be alone with damage unless the
spike-surge was only to your house which I suppose is possible.  Just don't know.
Lightning works in very mysterious ways though.

So sorry about your losses.  I love to look at lightning but it sure can cause havok !

boB

[Kent0]

I think what needs to be thought about is possible paths for damaging current and voltage that were not protected. The obvious one I see is the neutral wire not having surge protection. In the main panel the neutral and ground should be connected together; that connection is critical for the surge protection to work. At the subpanel in the shop and at the inverters the neutral and ground are probably not connected together. (Unless the subpanel in the shop has a neutral ground connection as allowed in earlier versions of the NEC.) During a lightning event the ground in the shop and the ground in the house will be a different potentials, that difference and any induced voltage on the neutral conductor will appear between the neutral and ground at the shop (same issue at the inverters). The surge protection pulls L1 and L2 to ground but still leaves an unprotected voltage between neutral and ground, and also between neutral and L1 (and L2). On ac circuits any distance from the main panel, a surge protector is needed on the neutral wire too.

[Halfcrazy]

Kent
That is an excellent point and one that is generally over looked. I always protect the neutral if I am more than 40-50ft away from the mains.

[Kent0]

I wish the three-phase version of the Midnite SPD hadn't been abandoned. It could have been used to protect L1, L2, and neutral in a 120/240 system with a single package. It seems like we have a lot of SPDs hanging on every panel we install. So many that it is often hard to find places to locate them among the conduits that enter the panel. It looks like the Schnieder HPED80 might be a good alternative to the Midnite SPD where we need to protect the neutral and two ac hot legs.

[CDN-VT]

I wish the three-phase version of the Midnite SPD hadn't been abandoned. It could have been used to protect L1, L2, and neutral in a 120/240 system with a single package. the Schnieder HPED80 might be a good alternative to the Midnite SPD where we need to protect the neutral and two ac hot legs.

Thanks I also wonder that also . I just bought a few units .
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FXDBI9A/ref=pd_va_prv_0

for the last few weeks , we have been told by the weather tellers that thunder storms etc. I hear them but not close today.
Sure wish they had continued the 3 phase or include the neutral central ..Protection NOW is important

[boB]

The problem as I  understand it with the 3-phase SPD was that there was not enough  call for it.

The ETL or UL listing and mandatory inspections would have made it prohibitively expensive.

We would need way more customers for it than the small-ish choir gathered here.  The casing
would also have to be re-tooled which is very expensive.

Now, maybe some time this view will change and more customers will request it and
might be re-thought.

Most folks (not all, such as you guys!) want to spend as little as possible to have their
system compliant so insurance (?) can pay the rest of the damage.

  You guys can certainly help to educate the masses.

boB

[Kent0]

Besides the neutral that was unprotected, there are other paths at risk too. Maybe this isn't applicable to you, but if the controller for the inverter is remotely mounted from the inverter, the long communication cables can act like an antenna and pick up induced voltage. I guess my point is that the neighbor that didn't have any damage did have good surge protection but also may have had lower risk factors too. I think the Midnite SPD is a good device, it may have even operated correctly during this event. But it wasn't protecting the neutral wire and that may have been the path that allowed the surge to get into things that were damaged. The HEPD80 will protect the neutral, so I think I'll invest in those to protect subpanels in the future. You can't beat the warranty that comes with it.

[Kent0]

boB,

I can see the demand being low for a three-phase surge protector. But demand for a 120/240 split-phase device that protects L1/L2/N may be (or may have been) greater. It is understandable that you guys have to prioritize and consider the market. But, if only ....

[CDN-VT]

Or the wording of how it is perceived to be used !
As Mr boB stated :
Most folks (not all, such as you guys!) want to spend as little as possible to have their
system compliant so insurance (?) can pay the rest of the damage.

I'm a guy who answers to fix the problem . I see penny pinchers daily , it costs them dollars later.