How Do I configure the Classic 150 to the Amps of my batteries?

Started by jramerman, January 18, 2017, 04:01:00 AM

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jramerman

Hi, new to the forum and somewhat new to the Classic 150. I have 6 x 12V 100Ah batteries, 2 x PV arrays each array is 3 x 260W Trina panels (producing 110V / array?). I am trying to understand the Ending Amps, Float to Absorb and temp settings between the Classic and the WBjr.
1 x Classic 150; 8 x 100Ah AGM Deep Cycle batteries, 24V 400Ah configuration, Latronics 3000W inverter, 2 strings 3 x 260W Trina panels

Sandleton, South Australia

ClassicCrazy

First thing need to know
What kind of batteries do you have ?  We need to find manufacturers recommended setpoints.
What battery voltage are you running 12 V , 24 v ?
There was just a lot of discussion in previous forum about most of these topics - suggest you read through that and then ask any specific questions you have .
http://kb1uas.com/mnsforum/index.php?topic=3577.0

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

jramerman

Thanks. I will view those posts first before continuing.

In the meantime my systems consists of:-
1 x Classic 150; 6 x 260 W panels (in 2 arrays of 3 panels / array), WhizBang jnr; 6 x 100 Ah 12 V batteries (4 x Power Sonic Sealed rechargeable PDC Series PDC-121000U 12 V 100 Ah & 2 x Remco RM 12-100 12 V 100 Ah Rechargeable Valve Regulated Sealed Constant Voltage Charge); batteries configured for 24 V in Series/Parallel.

Regards
1 x Classic 150; 8 x 100Ah AGM Deep Cycle batteries, 24V 400Ah configuration, Latronics 3000W inverter, 2 strings 3 x 260W Trina panels

Sandleton, South Australia

ClassicCrazy


Here is the technical data for the Powersonic sealed batteries
http://www.power-sonic.com/images/powersonic/technical/1277751263_20100627-TechManual-Lo.pdf

I am going with that even though you have two different batteries - see below.


"Charging for Cycle Operation
Cyclic applications generally require that recharging be done in a relatively short time. The initial charge current, however,
must not exceed 0.30 x C amps. Just as battery voltage drops during discharge, it slowly rises during charge. Full charge
is determined by voltage and inflowing current. When, at a charge voltage of 2.45 ± 0.05 volts/cell, the current accepted
by the battery drops to less than 0.01 x C amps (1% of rated capacity), the battery is fully charged and the charger should
be disconnected or switched to a float voltage of 2.25 to 2.30 volts/cell. The voltage should not be allowed to rise above
2.45 ± 0.05 volts/cell."

They say .3 x C which would be .3 x 300 = 90 amps maximum charge current. I don't think your Classic can do more than that so you should be okay .

I know they say 2.45 volts but that is maximum  - I would start out at 2.4v - I think I read that in one of the graphs on tech data sheet linked below.

So Absorb 2.4 x 6 = 14.4 v x 2 = 28.8 v
Float  2.25 x 6 = 13.5 v x 2 = 27.0 v
Set Absorb time for 4 hours
Ending amps they say .01 x C so .01 x 100 = 1 amps for each parallel bank - so I think you would say 3 banks so ending amps would be 3 amps. I think I did that right - maybe Vic or someone else  will confirm this ending amp figure.

I would watch this carefully at first to make sure it looks right. You have two different battery manufacturers which is usually not recommended . It is also recommended that all the batteries be the same age. But I guess you have to work with what you have and hope for the best. It is going to be especially important that you have the parallel batteries wired up correctly so that the current will be equally shared - which will be something of a challenge already if those different manufacturers/aged batteries take different currents.

You want to make sure that the SOC is filling up close to 100% at the ending amps point and that 4 hours is long enough for absorb to accomplish that in case ending amps doesn't stop it first.

See this for wiring batteries .
http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

Here is what they say about temperature compensation

"Temperature effects should definitely be considered when designing or selecting a charging system. Temperature
compensation is desirable in the charging circuit, especially when operating outside the range of 5°C to 35°C
(41°F to 95°F). The temperature coefficient is -2mV/cell/ºC below 20°C (68°F) in float use and -6mV/cell/ ºC below
20°C in cyclic use. For higher temperatures the charge voltage should be correspondingly decreased."

So -6mv for temperature compensation setting.

Larry





system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

Westbranch

Larry pointed out that you have 2 battery makers.
You stated that there will be 3 strings of batteries in the bank.  This makes one assume you plan to charge them together, simultaneously...
There are other ways to charge them if you do not need the full support of all 3 strings at one time..

What are the large loads you plan to support? What have you determined their Wattage draw to be ?
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

jramerman

Wow, thanks Larry & Vic? (Westbranch). I inherited the batteries on a very basic 12 Volt off-grid system when I purchase my remote property January 2015. I didn't move onto the property till late 2015 and in August 2016 upgraded parts of the system to what I could afford at the time. I live in South Australia and I assume that we pay much higher prices for components than you may in the USA. Because of budget I retained the batteries whilst upgrading everything else.

So, I now have a 24 Volt system with the batteries interconnected as follows (I hope this makes sense): 1 bank of 3 batteries interconnected +ve pole to +ve pole, the other bank of 3 are interconnected -ve pole to -ve pole. The 2 banks are aligned so that there are 3 pairs interconnected +ve to -ve giving me the 24 V and 600 Ah configuration.

When I connected it all up, I left all of the Classic settings at factory default. I have connected the battery temp sensor as well and have only just started trying to figure out if I need to change settings.

One setting I have just managed to get right is the Total Amps on the WBjr. It was set on 400 Amps. Today I changed it to 600 Amps. Being new to all of this stuff I have left everything else alone.

These are the other settings:-
Under Charge Menu
EQ 28.6
Absorb 28.6
Float 27.2
Absorb Time 02:00 & EQ 01:00

Timer View
Absorb 02:00 EQ 01:00 Float 01:13

T-Comp
-5.0mV EQ Comp'd NO Temp Comp Setpoint 26.8

EQ menu
EQ Stopped

Advanced
Ending  Rebulk Skip
<0.0     <8.0     0
Amps    Volts    days
CLASC              Now = 0

Limits
output 96.0 A  Input 99.0  A  Min T-Comp 26.4 V   Max 29.2 V
Hi-Batt 170.0 Temp C

Aux 2
Aux 2 in> 6V forces Float

Aux 1 manual off

TWEAKS
V Batt offsets
V 0.0 26.8 Volts

VpV 0.0

I have lots to learn but the system has been stable. Any suggestions welcomed.

Regards Johan
1 x Classic 150; 8 x 100Ah AGM Deep Cycle batteries, 24V 400Ah configuration, Latronics 3000W inverter, 2 strings 3 x 260W Trina panels

Sandleton, South Australia

ClassicCrazy

I don't think that is quite right for the batteries.
You should have two of your powersonics together in series, then another two of them in series, and then the other two batteries by the other manufacturer in series. You would then parallel those three  using the above wiring diagram so that the currents are close to the same.

I would look at the date codes on the batteries. Hopefully all the powersonics are the same age. Then you could consider just using those and maybe take the other two off and think of another way to charge them.

If all the batteries are different ages by more than 6 months  then they probably won't charge right . You may just series / parallel them all together and use them until they don't work any more and you have to buy a balanced set. One way to tell if the batteries are not working right together is to check them when they are full and see if any are getting hot . Then you really have a bad one.

You wont be doing any equalizing so just put the absorb voltage in there too just in case it ever gets accidentally started up in that mode.

Your total AH  you have wrong - if you put two batteries in series you add the voltage but the ah stays the same. So if you had them all hooked up in series parallel for 24v you would have 3 x 100 for total of 300 ah . 

No Westbranch is not Vic - Vic is another one of the guys on here who really knows his stuff ! I learned a lot from him on here.

Larry

system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

jramerman

Hi Larry, yes I have the Ah incorrect. It is a 24 V 300Ah setup. With the batteries, my description is probably confusing. I have 2 PowerSonics in series, the other 2 PowerSonics in series and the 2 Remco's in series and then the three in parallel. I should learn the proper terminology too.

The other thing of interest in my area is that we have extremely hot summers - up to 55 Celcius + in the sun and down to -8 Celcius in the winter. Challenging at times. The temperature can vary dramatically across a day.

When I purchased the new components for my system, I did a calculation of total Watts (including Startup watts) required and also tried to work out the Amps and hope that I have specced out the panels, batteries and inverter to match. The system has worked well to date and I am now trying to refine settings. Eventually, I will replace the batteries.

Again thanks for your feedback.

Johan
1 x Classic 150; 8 x 100Ah AGM Deep Cycle batteries, 24V 400Ah configuration, Latronics 3000W inverter, 2 strings 3 x 260W Trina panels

Sandleton, South Australia