Welfare for wind...??

[Westbranch]

got this just now. hit the link and you go to a much larger diatribe an wind and subsidies...  Interesting point by Mr Buffet...

Wind and solar are the welfare dependents of the energy world.

Every wind and solar installation that goes up locks in higher electricity rates for the community in which it is built.

It's time to break the cycle of dependence.

Larry Bell posted five key reasons to "pull the plug" on wind subsidies at CFACT.org. https://www.cfact.org/2017/03/06/five-key-reasons-to-pull-plug-on-wind-subsidies/

"Wind is certainly not a 'free,' reliable or economically competitive energy source."  Bell writes, "Nor is it a sustainable charity we can continue to afford to blow money on."

Legendary investor Warren Buffett was famously quite candid https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/nancy-pfotenhauer/2014/05/12/even-warren-buffet-admits-wind-energy-is-a-bad-investmentabout the perverse incentives surrounding wind energy.  "I will do anything that is basically covered by the law to reduce Berkshire's tax rate," Buffet said, "For example, on wind energy, we get a tax credit if we build a lot of wind farms. That's the only reason to build them. They don't make sense without the tax credit."

Congress should allow the production tax credits for wind to expire in 2021.

Let's see how they do if wind and solar are forced to compete in a free market.

[ClassicCrazy]

I don't think you will get anything close to open minded discussion on that website !

Larry

[Westbranch]

I agree, just posted to show how poorly PV and wind is viewed/depicted on the other side of the fence... and Buffet is as bad as the Wall street Banksters that were supposed to be charged 8 years ago...  but too big to fail kicked in...

[CDN-VT]

I agree, just posted to show how poorly PV and wind is viewed/depicted on the other side of the fence... and Buffet is as bad as the Wall street Banksters that were supposed to be charged 8 years ago...  but too big to fail kicked in...

Since This was on Sunday March 6th let out : https://www.wikileaks.com/
WIKILEAKS ARE OUT Fake NEWS is so out there & anytime I see the Mr P "Don"   someone  is playing an angle to win / lie / or deceive .I have not been reading Vault 7 , I've been into  the Chemtrails & where they are bleeding money from to pay for so many flights . I count at least 6 -8 a day when they are at it. Is that my Carbon tax ?? Im paying !!
Plus Julian posted his video .


Edited on a busy week down there .

Canada has Provencal TAX breaks etc.  For the WIND !! House PV is different
BC is Hydro & has one turbine that is given power to turn , install was 2010 for the Olympics , all BS & flash for the Gordon/Clark liberal party saying they  are into RE !!

Some real good replys on windfarms from USA & Canada :

California’s Altamont Pass wind farms, comprising about 80% of the world’s wind generation capacity back in the 1990’s, ceased to generate any electricity. In the best wind spot on earth, over 200 huge turbines were simply abandoned. Spinning, post-industrial junk which generates nothing but bird kills. According to the Golden Gate Audubon Society, some 100 Golden Eagles, 380 Burrowing Owls, 300 Red-tailed Hawks, and 330 American Kestrels (falcons) are killed by those now useless Altamont turbines annually. The July, 2008 study by the Alameda County Community Development Agency points to 10,000 annual bird deaths - from those once wildly touted Altamont Pass wind turbines now deader than those Don Quixote’s wind mills. Onward to the past! Backward to the future! Green energies! Renewable energies! Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, comrades in arms, friends of the environment â€" but I am thoroughly confused and will stop writing right here. Another 20,000 such wind turbines
all across the country have similarly been abandoned. The company I worked for
â€"Bechtel -installed those Altamont wind turbines; following a strange drop-off
in output Bechtel engineers visited those wind turbines; they found up to 6
feet of dead birds around each one; they said the stench was unbearable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I was involved in building one of the first wind parks, 120 units at 50kw per. I can tell you that in the right places smaller units WORK and take little maintenance. The bigger the unit the more engineering, control, maintenance and wind velocity needed. Today we are trying to produce Mw equipment. That is probably the worst decision, I have not performed a recent cost analysis, however I would bet that it is cheaper to manufacture, install, maintain and manage 50 to 100 kw units and that the return on investment of energy would be higher overall. Hell, we used available parts from catalogues such as vacuum pumps, air pumps, disc brake systems, control systems ....virtually everything was available in the market place already except the tower, base, nacelle and blades.

Bottom line, we could never have built the first generation without tax advantage, however the tax advantage should have ENDED when it was first scheduled to. There was NEVER any intent by government nor industry to have continual tax advantage (above normal equipment depreciation schedules). That is until the "Warren Buffets" of the world influence pedaled. The idea was to inject an industry with engineering ability not to pay for fraud as is done today.

Don't believe that Buffet is "just using" those advantages, I will pretty much guaranty you that he directed millions paid to lobbyists to assure politicians gave his companies tax advantage at OUR expense. Yes he will use it but HE and others like him abused you and me to do it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We here in Ontario Are paying huge Electric Bills .We have these huge windmills and if they aren`t broke down only half are running. We are dumping power into the USA for free . They Cost millions and Millions to in stall and they will never pay for themselves in a million years. We have people here that have to turn off their heat now in the winter time. Because they they have to juggle their income to pay rent, feed their kids now. These people will never be able to pay or catch up to paying their hydro. They the "Government "have put on this added cost for hydro passing by your house which costs us sometimes twice as much as our use of hydro. They asked us to save hydro by not using it at peak times of day!! We did so well they didn`t get enough money to pay their cost of hyro??

When I was in NB & NS the wind farms were on large farms & I veied some of the buildings of them .Spoke to some of the workers also . Huge !! Didnt see any working from the base so no birds I could count. They are humming or you can hear the vibration  in the wind.

VT
I'll see if I can attach a few Pix of these from 2008

[ClassicCrazy]

I agree, just posted to show how poorly PV and wind is viewed/depicted on the other side of the fence... and Buffet is as bad as the Wall street Banksters that were supposed to be charged 8 years ago...  but too big to fail kicked in...

You need to make a kickstarter - I just watched this one
https://youtu.be/wNHcIYyYDhU

[Westbranch]

got to the part about needing ~150W solar to power it and left the video... enough

[niel]

i'm curious to ask if canada also subsidizes solar and wind either in development in industry or on a residential level for incentives? or does justin leave that up to the u.s. for research?

[russ_drinkwater]

If it was open slather and I was paid 10-15 cents per kilowatt for what I could produce from solar and the transformer could handle it
(only 25kw atm) I would invest in another 20-50 kws of arrays and inverters. As long as I could use the 2nd hand panels from my supplier
and have a free hand (complying with regs).
Peak loads in this country are almost out of control and gas/coal fired power stations can not meet demand.
Wind is intermittent except in the great aussie bite area of south australia.

[TomW]

Geeze, I must be a fool. Big investment in solar here and not one dime of incentive from anyone.

I literally had to forcibly drag the utility through the knot hole of Grid Tie knowledge just to do it and then I get "avoided cost" for my surplus reconciled monthly so no carry over to lean months and anally raped on the surplus compensation.

And, the real pisser is the (City owned) utility gets the "carbon credits" for my installation. Funny as they resisted all the way to the commissioning and then I went over their heads to the City Council to force the utility to get it done.

Not a real big deal because we did it because it is the right thing to do not to make $$ and in 10 years the government can't tell me they get to pilfer my power production because they subsidized it. 


Money ain't everything but it is a necessity in this modern age.

Rant off.

Tom

[TomW]

OK, to whomever;

Just for clarity  and accuracy.

I may have suffered a "Senior Moment" when I wrote that post about data over USB.

Reading it today, I am Pretty sure it was an Outback inverter I was pulling data from over USB.

Listen to boB, he probably doesn't have Alshiemers' ?SP?.

Sorry for the confusion. Off to sit on my typing hand awhile.

I apologize for any confusion on this.

Tom

[niel]

Geeze, I must be a fool. Big investment in solar here and not one dime of incentive from anyone.

Tom

Tom,
So as administrator you get to be a wisea$$ and bait me. It is apparent who's trolling. I won't argue over your assessment of yourself.

now anybody care to answer my question?

[Halfcrazy]

Niel
canada has incentives much like the US, it varies by area. For instance Toronto had a (May still have) FIT program that would pay you up to 80 cents a KWH produced for up to 15-20 years I think it was.


I took the liberty of googling it for you

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=solar+incentives+in+canada+by+providence

[Halfcrazy]

Geeze, I must be a fool. Big investment in solar here and not one dime of incentive from anyone.

Tom

Tom,
So as administrator you get to be a wisea$$ and bait me. It is apparent who's trolling. I won't argue over your assessment of yourself.

now anybody care to answer my question?

Not sure I understand, Tom was simply making a joke, (Like Foolish me for paying for it myself when the rest of the world is getting subsidies). Not sure what your beef is with Tom but you may want to take it to PM vs Public forum,,,,,,

[TomW]

Geeze, I must be a fool. Big investment in solar here and not one dime of incentive from anyone.

Tom

Tom,
So as administrator you get to be a wisea$$ and bait me. It is apparent who's trolling. I won't argue over your assessment of yourself.

now anybody care to answer my question?

Neil;

I have to ask:

Are you off your meds, old man?

I see absolutely no connection between that comment and you!

So just let it go before you have a stroke succumbing to paranoia about me baiting you and just stop blathering on about something that just exists in your own mind.

Let it go, you may live longer and may even manage to be happy.

For your own good.

Or not.

I see I am NOT alone in this confusion on the source of the burr in your shorts!

I'm done.

Tom

[niel]

i'm not the one who made it all public and i asked for a pm and got none from either of you. what a surprise. i expected you to give him a free pass and i don't need you to google it for me as i thought we had canadians here that could've answered the innocent question i posed quite readily. this is also on the section of the forum that does encompass off topic discussions so after the main part of the forum gets a thread about trolls you're objecting to this here? right whatever, as imo you're out of line too.

btw, i'll save you the trouble seeing as how this forum has gone downhill.