Author Topic: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)  (Read 511 times)

Resthome

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2017, 08:51:27 PM »
It has been stated somewhere,   perhaps on this Forum,   that the non-polarized panel-mount breakers have Line and Load markings,   because SO many electricians are accustomed to looking for such markings,   and would question which terminals were line,   and load,  if they were not marked,   so   this was a stated reason.

Also,   it is not clear to me,   that ALL panel-mount breakers are non-polarized.   Wonder about the older Airpax breakers from several decades ago (as were used in the Trace and Xantrex systems)  --  are these panel mount breakers polarity-sensitive?

FWIW,     Vic

Good point Vic..  I edited my post to state all MIDNITE Panel mount breakers
John

10 x Kyocera KC140, Classic 150 w/WBJr, Link10 Battery Monitor, 850 AH @ 12v Solar One 2v cells, Xantrex PROwatt SW2000
Off Grid on Houseboat Lake Don Pedro, CA

Jacotenente

  • Guest
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2017, 09:03:53 PM »
Just thought I would post a pic of where I am at with this rebuild/rewire. Landed the PV feeder cables into the MNDC. The labels I attached to the PV cable ends survived the "cable pull" through conduit.

Chris

dgd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
    • Lorylink
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2017, 10:20:29 PM »
An interesting wall layout...  a few observations, please don't get upset...
You have squeezed what looks like 3 Classics, some metering (inverter?) and MNDC all into a rather tight wall space that looks like its part of a living room area.
The PV in cables are, I assume, just passing through the MNDC and exit bottom into channel then up into the Classics' PV inputs? Is that the only option you have to route these PV inputs to the Classics? Are there PV input breakers planned between these PV cables and each CLassic? Is there PV combiners somewhere else? perhaps with breakers
eg in an MNPV3 or 6 etc..
Classics without front covers?  rather too tight to each other to permit sufficient air flow around the case heat sinking. The wire channel below Classics look slotted but I would still doubt enough air can get to the working Classics without air spaces to the sides of each.
Where are the batteries located in relation to this wall?

dgd

« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 10:22:25 PM by dgd »
Classic 250, 150,  20 140w, 6 250w PVs, 2Kw turbine, MN ac Clipper, Epanel/MNdc, Trace SW3024E (1997), Century 1050Ah 24V FLA (1999). Arduino power monitoring and web server.  Off grid since 4/2000
West Auckland, New Zealand

ClassicCrazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1297
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2017, 11:16:27 PM »
Good observation dgd about the tight Classics and if they can get enough cooling air . Also the Outback 3500 watt inverter below them  will add some additional heat to the area if it is running high output  which may be the same time the Classics are running at their high output too.

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 20 Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

Jacotenente

  • Guest
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2017, 11:39:05 PM »
Anything "positive" to say about this rebuild? The MNDC C-series breakers have not been installed yet. I use a tabletop fan and planned on knocking out some the raceway tabs for airflow. The Outback inverter's top exhaust outlet with not interfere with the three Classic's. Spacing is tight for the Classics...what is not seen is 1" spacers on the back side (they don't sit flat against the wall). The batteries are located on the deck (this is a garage). Yes, it gets "warm" (low 90s) for a few months of the year. Garage is vented with dual exhaust fans. Anything else?

ClassicCrazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1297
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2017, 12:14:30 AM »
Looks good

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 20 Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

dgd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
    • Lorylink
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2017, 01:35:44 AM »
On the positive side its good to see you are using a wiring channel for all the interconnecting cables. With fronts and lids on the whole setup will look pretty clean.
As for the Classics I think you will be surprised how warm they actually get. The spacers off back are good but I still think you need plenty of airflow around the Classic's sides
This would probably need removing one of them and spacing the other two apart.
Not easy to redesign limited wall space but better to consider it now before the system is fully operational when it will be more difficult to move things about

dgd
Classic 250, 150,  20 140w, 6 250w PVs, 2Kw turbine, MN ac Clipper, Epanel/MNdc, Trace SW3024E (1997), Century 1050Ah 24V FLA (1999). Arduino power monitoring and web server.  Off grid since 4/2000
West Auckland, New Zealand

Jacotenente

  • Guest
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2017, 08:42:55 AM »
Right on...good idea. While all the "guts" are exposed, will try to get more space for the three Classics. Maybe move the inverter down more too? Two of the Classics (24v system) in the heat of summer average around 900w and 800w output respectively. About 35-45 amps each (well below the max power capability). The "main" Classic runs a harder (on the left) in the summer...about 70-75 amps during the peak sun of summer for those hours. Power use out of the inverter is 2,000-2,225 watts AC with everything on. The inverter gets more warm than the Classics.

Jacotenente

  • Guest
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2017, 08:10:41 PM »
Everything works. Carling (non-polarized) panel mount C-series breakers are labeled the way they are stamped...and subsequently, I wired the MNDC that way. Breakers (250a and the three 100a) are isolated. Used all #4 and #6 THHN rated cable (sans the welding cable going down to the batteries and inverter). All tinned, marine-rated lugs, torqued, industrial grade adhesive heat shrink, tie-straps, cable anchors, labeled everything. Also added a protective cover for the PV-in (LINE) atop the C-series 30a breakers (top left). I cut up a plastic screw/nut bin...fit almost perfect...used Velcro to secure it. NEC compliant "Photovoltaic DC Disconnect" warning sticker on order for the MNDC cover. The three Classics LINEs (#4 THHN) are crimped together into a single 2/0 lug (with double heat shrink insulation) and tied to the "LINE" of the 250a Carling breaker (which serves as a buss down to the 24v battery bank). Max current from the three Classic's is about 140a.

Chris
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 09:35:35 AM by Chris DIYer »

grgdgreek

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2017, 08:00:37 AM »
Very clean wiring
Nice.
Home:6*135w mitsu.10*175w shuko. 2* cl150.3*D400 turbines.
Rolls18*4v series 5000 545ah*3 .2*Victron 3000 multiplus inv/chg. 24v. Shop:28*185w shuko. Sunny island. Sunnyboy.Rolls 40*s530.48volt.Sunny web box.

harryn

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2017, 12:27:14 AM »

[/quote]

Chris,

If you notice in Ryan's video when he talks about Midnite panel mount breakers there is a white text overlay that pops up which states these are not polarity sensitive.  When he talks about Midnite din rail breakers this is where he talks about polarity and current available Midnite din rail breakers need to be wired correctly. This has been mentioned in the forums before.  It could have been made clearer by stating this verbally. For that reason the only place I have Midnite Din rail breakers are in the Combiner box. I use Midnite panel mount breakers for every thing else.
[/quote]

Hi, just curious - where are you sourcing boxes for your panel mount breakers?  The options from midnight are nice, but pretty limited.

I have wondered about just using some nema boxes and having them punched.

Resthome

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
Re: MNDC250PLUS wiring question (see pic)
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2017, 02:59:07 PM »


Chris,

If you notice in Ryan's video when he talks about Midnite panel mount breakers there is a white text overlay that pops up which states these are not polarity sensitive.  When he talks about Midnite din rail breakers this is where he talks about polarity and current available Midnite din rail breakers need to be wired correctly. This has been mentioned in the forums before.  It could have been made clearer by stating this verbally. For that reason the only place I have Midnite Din rail breakers are in the Combiner box. I use Midnite panel mount breakers for every thing else.
[/quote]

Hi, just curious - where are you sourcing boxes for your panel mount breakers?  The options from midnight are nice, but pretty limited.

I have wondered about just using some nema boxes and having them punched.
[/quote]

Midnite's Quad Box has space for 4 panel mount breakers.
John

10 x Kyocera KC140, Classic 150 w/WBJr, Link10 Battery Monitor, 850 AH @ 12v Solar One 2v cells, Xantrex PROwatt SW2000
Off Grid on Houseboat Lake Don Pedro, CA