24v Inverter Suggestions?

[CDN-VT]

Peak efficiency is 100% meaningless!
It is measured at one particular output at one particular battery voltage. If your home happens to run at these parameters, then good enough. I am sure the Cotek is just fine as far as efficiency. I would be more concerned about surge power, warranty stations, idle power, connection to NEC standards and UL listing.

+++++++++++++++ like
VT

[CDN-VT]

I dropped many second class (want-2-bees ) & went OUTBACK or old trace . You can adjust them for YOUR area/ world /situation..

Ms Rosie /B17 etc Im sure will be great , BUT !!!! DO NOT limit yourself at the inverter !!

PICK  A VOLTAGE in real thinking !! SIZE & lifestyle ! inverters can have panels & cells added , but the inverter controls the size of harvest & wire size !!! 


VT

[tecnodave]

VT,

I like your thinking....I need ultra reliable inverter and will wait for a Rosie, I really like Outback but haven't been able to justify as my ultra reliable needs are only 450 watts or so hence the Exeltek which easily powers my medical needs. I can flip switches/breakers to connect the Exeltek to either system. My MagnaSine is a bit disappointing, the decades old Dynamote Brutus is more reliable but as it is 30 plus years old I won't depend on it , it's just too old! Of course absolutely no support! Don't want to comment too much on Sensata/MagnaSine , support?  Overload capability? Not! Burned up three Scheinder PureSine units......hard for me to say as I am a Square D (part of Schnieder) stocking installer, I get awesome support from Square D on everything that they have but sadly not from Schneider Solar division.

David.

[CDN-VT]

@tecnodave

Mr David
what were the Schneider Solar units ? Im installing a 6848 unit now ..
The Job is a huge one wthl a new roof install of metal (12G+ ) and now we are making new mountings due to the crap there selling to keep the roof warranty . Metal roofs & dissimilar metals (electrolysis)  no damage etc & were being inspected on every joint .. how did you get to burn up three Scheinder PureSine units ?

Robin said they were good .

VT

[tecnodave]

VT,

All three were 1kw pro sine units used in my service truck. They fried using portable power tools, right angle drill motors with AC/DC motors , 1 a DeWalt unit that was formerly called a "timberwolf" , this unit has a clutch in low range and is very powerful, capable of turning an 8 inch hole saw or 3 1/2 inch Lenox bit, the kind with straight blades. It does take a lot of power to turn these at slow speeds. My Milwaukee right angle drill just does not have enough power to turn that large of bit. Thr Milwaukee "Hole Hog" can but is very dangerous as it has no clutch and is known to cause personal injury when bit becomes jammed. One unit was destroyed by a Porter Cable 8256 right angle drill at medium speed , low range drilling a 2 5/8 hole up through existing construction for a 2" mast during a power upgrade from  a 100 amp service with a 1 1/4 inch mast. I hit a large nail which stalled the drill motor and burnt the inverter. All three Pro Sine units were 12 volt powered. The Porter Cable drill is medium power so I was very surprised that it burned the unit. I do have a Onan generator in the service truck which I always use for large power tools such as my Skillsaw HD 77M saw but I do use inverters for tools rated less than 800 watts or so. One was destroyed when my Milwaukee right angle drill struck something and jammed at full speed when I was pinned to the wall.  I would think that the inverter would just overload and shut off but it did not, it stayed at full power until it cooked. The Cotek units shut down in three seconds in the same situation. I have 3 Cotek units , all 24 volt units , 2 SK 1500-124 and 1 SK 2000-124 . I have hot used any of Schneider's solar inverters, only the portable units that are Asian made by Zantrex.

David


<edited to correct Apple's wonderful spelling ability....>

[CDN-VT]

My "Thoughts "

You are pushing them inverters too hard on there sizing .
A drill load is not a steady like a freezer / fridge   (they start @ 600-1200 watt & settle to [good ones 120w])

Table saw is a ez load till wood hits the blade !! NOW the blade dull or sap loaded CAN cause a load greater than limits .
I try to run a limit of 2.5 under stall .

Take a chop saw , Kill-a-watt pro , wood & stall the blade , see the load watts or amps (do math ) and figure out 2.5 times the load .

I like 3 .5 to 4 times the safety factor , cuz all under estimate the truth ................

VT

[tecnodave]

VT,

Sorry had an interruption, to continue on Schnieder inverters,

I have serviced several Schnieder inverter installations and have found no faults in their large units such as the 8848 . So I have no issue with the quality or design of the units, the one huge issue I do have with Schnieder is lack of support. When I was looking to upgrade my MPPT controllers I called everybody in the business asking questions. On my first contact with MidNite I talked with boB and realized right away that they were serious about support, I got mediocre support from Outback only after being filtered through several non technical persons who knew little about the technical aspects of the gear, Morningstar was awful, I do have a Morningstar MPPT 60 amp unit , but zilch support. When I called Schneider I never did get a knowledge support person despite many calls. I found this very disappointing as I am very sold on the products made by their Square D division. I can call Square D any time and get awesome product support on any of their lines , multi-9 , Teleminque , Square D , etc. I am not a huge dealer so they do not know who that I am, I buy their product through local supply houses as I only stock what I know that I will need and cannot get locally timely, nevertheless I can get an very qualified support person at any time. Not so with Allen Bradley, when I have problems with Allen Bradley gear I replace it with Square D or sometimes Seimens, another company that has very good product support.

When NAWS recently had a sale on Schneider inverters I almost bought a 4 kW inverter, then thought about support policy and decided to wait for MidNite to get their inverters to market. I'm a bit underwhelmed with my MagnaSine MS4024 AE , it does not have much overload capability but will run my deep pump water well if there are no other large loads on. I would need two Outbacks or their auto transformer unit to do that. The ancient Dynamote Brutus 3200 watt 120 volt only unit wired through a transformer runs the well pump with ease. The MagnaSine will only run the well pump if I release all the head pressure then start the pump. Admitly it is a large load for a 4kw inverter, it's 2hp pumping from 240 feet with 50 p.s.i. head pressure at ground level.

If a used Schheider came by at a reasonable price I would probably buy it, I would snap up any Outback unit as I can sell any good quality units that I do not need. Sadly I missed Classic Crazy,s <edit I think it was TomW who sold a used system of Outback' not Larry (Classic Crazy)>
system due to shipping across the country. It was a killer deal as Was robin's old system with two older Trace inverters.

I maintain solar systems and have never had a fault with Schneider inverters, only poorly designed battery systems, multiple strings of batteries ,charged by multiple Schneider MPPT controllers,  typically designed by persons without adequately battery knowledge. I do not beleive in multiple strings of batteries. I replaced all strings with much larger 2 volt cells from Trojan and have had no further issues with that system. It powers  4 houses in the Santa Cruz mountains , two 8848's , 30 kW of panels , 360 feet run from panels to controllers, Schneider 600 volt MPPT controllers , Square D fuse panels, good gear but I had trouble with support from Schneider on technical issues.

I often diagnosis failure modes on systems on systems designed and installed by others and dislike system components that do not have factory support systems in place such as Allen Bradley, I replace that gear with stuff that is well designed and supported. I have great hopes that Schneider will replace the Zantrex team that destroyed Trace. I still use Trace C-40 controllers, I have had only one fail.
I'm reluctant to buy the older Trace inverters as they are very complex and nobody seems to want to share knowledge of those units. Same with the Dynamote units but I do have a total of 4 Dynamote's that are still in service, two 3200 watt 24 volt static inverters and two 6 kW  TA-60 Dynamote Dynamic inverters that run off a Leese-Neville alternator. These were designed for fire trucks but I use them for power tools in my service truck. Very reliable with awesome overload capability, I often need to test run large deep well water pumps from my service truck and few inverters are capable of doing that. The TA-60's have more overload capability than my Onan generator!

Anyway no real snivel about Schneider, just the support issue!  I'm sure Schneider will figure out how to better support their products. I've noticed that a lot of older Zantrex designed units showing up in overstock supply chains.

David

< edited for error on person who sold their used system and several Apple iPad spelling errors>

[tecnodave]

VT,

You are correct, they were too small to do the job , but a variable speed drill motor rated at 6.0 amps full load should have no problem starting on a 1 kW inverter , they do not have a huge start load like a refrigerator , starting at low speed the draw is only 2.0 amps but when running under load at 1/2 to 3/4 power and striking a nail then draw goes way up. That is when I blew the inverters, the SK 1500-124 handles that with ease, it reduces the voltage to keep the current within limits then times out /shuts down in three seconds. The Exeltech also does that. The ProSine just blew out, not just once,several times. Keep in mind that the ProSine is not a Schneider designed unit. It was designed by Zantrex and built in China. It is a consumer unit. Not really suitable for what I do. I now have 4 power sources of AC power in my service truck in order of capability,  A Cotek SK1500-124 running off 3 GC-8 golf cart batteries charged by a Leese-Neville 200 Amp ambulance alternator, a Dynamote Brutus 3200 watt 24 volt inverter running on same batteries , a Onan 4500 watt generator and a Dynamote TA-60 6 kW Dynamic inverter running off the three phase outputs of the Leese-Neville alternator powered by the main engine. The Cotek handles all the smaller power tools , sazsall's , right angle drills etc. I use the bigger ones when nessecary. Also have a 120 volt to 24 volt 100 amp charger that is powered by the Onan. I have designed and built my own auto start unit for the Onan that keeps the 24 volt set charged, controlled by radio remote.  I have mentioned before that the larger Cotek  SK
Series units are also marketed and rebranded by Vanner, the company which bought Dynamote and markets them for ambulances and fire trucks where reliability is of utmost importance. I formerly did two way radio work (mostly VHF and UHF public service band) and that is where I ran into Vanner  and Exeltek. Both of those companies specialize in high reliability equipment.

Radio is in my roots, I was born into a ham radio family and spent many a night in Alaska chewing the fat on my uncle's ham radio but when I went to get my license i got my first phone instead and did bush plane and fishing boat HF and VHF radios, yup back then bush planes in Alaska still used HF as VHF and Alaska mountains are not a good mix. I did many years in radio frequency environment but bailed out due to high radiation levels in some installations.....Mt Wilson in hell-a area thousands of land mobile, tv, radio, IMTS phones, etc. within several blocks area as well as 5 TV stations and 20 or more FM broadcast stations..... Just too toxic. Most of my electronics is of commercial quality of high end such as my Carver stereo gear. It's designed to a higher standard. I do not repair consumer grade gear. Not worth the time. That's how I feel about Zantrex..strictly consumer grade.

David

[CDN-VT]

Thanks for updates
VT

[Westbranch]

thanks for the 'consumer report' on those different units. It really counts when someone that has to work with/on stuff rates an item.

ps I have been very happy with my Cotek ST1500 24v inverter (with transfer switch) only version they had that could be hard wired... now replaced with plugin models

[ClassicCrazy]

thanks for the 'consumer report' on those different units. It really counts when someone that has to work with/on stuff rates an item.

ps I have been very happy with my Cotek ST1500 24v inverter (with transfer switch) only version they had that could be hard wired... now replaced with plugin models

Is the Cotek and Samlex brands the same ? Maybe Cotek is the Canadian version ?

Larry

[tecnodave]

Larry,

Samlex America told me that it is the same unit. Samlex buys them from Cotex all ready branded with the Samlex name. Vanner also has the same arrangement. I have also seen several other rebranding of this same line. Cotek is the manufacturer (Info directly from Cotek and Samlex).

David

[Westbranch]

Also confirmed by the Cotek Importer (a Canadian) for N.America, warehouse in Washington state...
Made in Taiwan, not China..

[tecnodave]

WB,

Cotek did tell me that they are based in Taiwan. I'm not sure that I said that they were Chinese. I did say that the Zantrex Pro Sine is made in China and I beleive that it is.

David

<edit>  What I said in previous post: "The Cotek is the only Asian inverter that I have had no reliability issues with"    Might be wrong but I do beleive that Tiawan is in Asia.

[Westbranch]

Dave, sorry, I did not mean to infer that you thought they were from China.

I just wanted to make it clear to any who might think they were Chinese made.