Firmware update NIGHTMARE

[Susido]

Well OK, nightmare might be an exaggeration but not by much.

I have 2 Classic 150 charge controllers. One is an older unit (5 or 6 years old) running firmware 2056 I think (from Nov 2015). I have updated it a couple of times previously though not without incident. The other is a new unit (last year) running a not quite current firmware version. I wanted the firmware to match as I intend to use Follow Me mode so downloaded the current firmware to try.

During previous updates to the older unit, I was forced to use a Windows 7 computer because using Windows 10 would (temporarily) brick the MNGP - something I reported here and others have as well. Now I can't update the older unit. No way, no how. I've tried both the same Windows 7 computer and a Windows 10 laptop. Both recognize there's a USB connection being made (connect sound, red USB light on in controller) but Classic Charge Controller Programmer.exe doesn't see a thing: Windows 10 device manager will report the USB connection as unrecognized, Windows 7 reports nothing though the needed drivers should already be on that machine and reinstalling drivers doesn't help.

Then stupidly I tried my luck with the new Classic with the Windows 10 laptop. Instant recognition of the Classic USB connection! Updated the Classic 150 firmware no problem. Updating the MNGP and upon finishing "successfully" ... bricked. No display, exactly like before with the old Classic under Windows 10. So I tried the old solution - use the Windows 7 machine.

Now the Classic Charge Controller Programmer doesn't see the Classic. Ouch. But now things got far more interesting. I noticed the USB connecting cable got hot. I mean HOT, almost too hot to hold. WTH?? The other USB connecting wires (mouse, keyboard) were fine, tried a different USB port. Cable got real hot within a few seconds - Classic is turned off at this point but red USB light is on so where is this heat coming from? This is a potential fire waiting to happen!

I was using the original USB cable included with the old Classic controller. I've also tried another cable from a Sony PS3. Both are kind of long but I don't even know where I can buy a short USB cable with that outdated connector. I'm scared to even plug the damn thing in.

I do not even know if the new controller works now. I guess I should try the other MGMP from the older Classic. Any help is definitely appreciated.

[mike90045]

I'd say bricking 50% of your charge controllers is a nightmare.
  I use XP for the updates, and it does fine (after following the multi page driver config procedure)

Hopefuly there is another answer

[Vic]

Hi Susido,

First,  you did load the Firmware into the AND the MNGP  BEFORE doing the VMM Reset,   right?

On the bricked Classic,  you will probably want to try doing Hardware (jumper) Reset,  and see if the Classic will be recognized.

Regarding the hot USB cable ...  so your battery negative is grounded to system ground,   and not the positive battery lead,  right?

The USB cable only gets hot when it is connected to one of the Classics,  and not the other ...?

Guessing done for now.   Good Luck,   Vic

[Susido]

I should have mentioned I did both the VMM and (because the MNGP doesn't display anything) the jumper reset after the update. The jumper reset was made more entertaining by the fact that my new Classic didn't include a jumper for JP4/Boot, I borrowed one from the other Classic...

I should further note that when I tried again to connect to the new Classic via USB using exactly the same equipment I used to update the first time, now it doesn't connect (Windows 10 reports unknown USB device even though it had zero issue the first time). Of course I rebooted the computer and tried the other cable too.

Vic, I have never technically grounded my battery negative to system ground (and certainly not positive ground). I understand this is recommended with 48v systems but it's been working fine for many years so I just left it. And yes, I only encountered the hot USB cable when connected to the newer Classic. That cable got so hot so fast that I have no doubt it would have melted if I hadn't noticed right away.

There may not be anything wrong with the new Classic, it's just that I can't see anything on the MNGP display - sounds and lights appear to work fine. I will need to try the other MNGP hoping the firmware version mismatch won't affect anything. Speaking of which, what kind of problems might I encounter using Follow Me with two different firmware versions? Because if I ever get things back to working, I don't think I will ever do another firmware update.

I have opened a support ticket with Midnite.

Question: Has anyone found the need to use a short(er) USB cable?

[Vic]

Susido,

Thanks for the added info.

OK on not having the battery neg grounded,   yes,   believe that is technically "required",   at least under NEC IIRC.

Fine on doing the Hardware and VMM Resets AFTER the last update.

Have heard of some running late,   but slightly differing FW on Classics with Follow Me,   and it seemed to work for some,  or one person here(but have only read of this).

Sure do not know about the hot cable ...  others will need to help there.

Recently,   Updated FW in two Classics (at the same site/same battery).   The first Update  =  easy peasy.   Tried Updating the second Cl  a number of times,   no dice on that one. (oopppssssssss   using USA slang),   until the Ethernet cable connection from that Classic to a Router was unplugged from the Router end (about 2 foot cable).   Then,  the Update went smoothly  ...   Ryan,   Halfcrazy  had mentioned that this can sometimes help with problematic Cl updates ... the thought is that the Ethernet generates NOISE,   which can affect USB Comms,  or similar.

This situation is frustrating,   but,  you seem quite pragmatic about it,   GOOD LUCK,   Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

Were you using the newest Windows 10 updater ?
If the usb cable got that hot it could be that it shut down that usb port on the computer - maybe they have a thermal fuse in them that resets when it cools down.

By not having your system grounded you can get currents going places you don't want them too. Even grounded systems can get currents going places  you don't want them to . I had an AC metal lamp that pinched the hot wire so it was touching the metal case. It was plugged into the inverter which was grounded. I had something on my DC circuit that touched the lamp and I saw a spark.  When I tested I found 120v between the metal lamp and the DC ground. The reason the AC circuit breaker did not trip is because it was only a two wire lamp and it was not plugged in to a GFCI outlet. But showed that having everything grounded gave a path. I had gotten a tingle from touching that light in the past and thought I had found and fixed the hot to metal case - but there was another or the real cut in wire to metal.  If that light had a safety ground to metal on the lamp it wouldn't have ever shocked me . And it was UL listed light too.

Not sure where you live but if you find somewhere that recycles electronics or old cell phone  stuff you will find all kinds of those usb cords.

Since you have a ticket open might as well see what the techs at Midnite say.

Larry 

[estragon]

Re: cable length, I found that none of the 3 supplied usb cables worked for firmware updates.  I ended up using a shorter usb cable I got with a handheld GPS which worked on all three classics.

[Resthome]

And I am still using the original long cable supplied by Midnight and have not had a problem updating firmware because of the USB cable length.

But having a HOT USB cable is a sure sign of a bigger problem. Whether its the USB cable, the Classic USB port, or the Computer USB port, There is something that is not correct as the USB cable should not get HOT.

[Westbranch]

I also use the original cables without issue with the cable, operator, well maybe....
And I agree, the USB cable should NOT EVER GET HOT!!   

You have a mechanical connection ( a  SHORT ) between a Pos and Neg some where in the circuit..

Did your computer come in contact with the Earth ground of your battery.... ??

[estragon]

The problem I had with the MS supplied cables could well be an issue with the laptop I used.  A "bit" on a serial connection really isn't.  A bit is either on or not, but a serial connection has to interpret a range of voltages as on or off.  It may be that the laptop is slightly different in what it calls "high" and/or "off".

The usb cable heating up thing suggests to me that the short would be on the remote (computer) side of things.  If it was on the Classic side, it would either burn enough to open the circuit or start a fire.

[boB]

Yeah, sometimes that supplied cable which is really WAY TOO long can be a problem.

Try another USB cable first.

And the latest and greatest firmware update software for the PC works MUCH better (overall) than
the older software that I did !  Matt somehow got it right !

boB