Author Topic: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?  (Read 222 times)

australsolarier

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 05:00:08 PM »
i always add a snubber diode no matter what. they are dirt cheap.

bscloutier

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2017, 09:04:17 PM »
Some (automotive) relays have them built-in which is nice.

binkino

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 04:12:12 PM »
Hi,

now i am working on the web page for monitoring the Classics and displaying it in a graphic way.
I make success step by step ;) but still not even finished :D


Next will be, displaying the AUX states, so I was thinking "hey why not include the JNIOR310 now" but I can't get it running.
"I am standing in front of the forrest and see only trees" like we use to say ;)


I was thinking, I can use the command line and write scripts, they will be executed with a link
(some years ago, my first "media player" GUI was a simple html web page, the links lead to simple playlist scripts, starting VLC and the movies. okay I had to disable some security things hehe but it was standalone and worked some years for me) in this list. But this doesn't work now with this.
Because in the script, I must log in, send commands, and I don't know further.
I could use the JNIOR's Java page, but thats too huge for i.e. mobile and on some computers, I don't want to install Java for this reason only.  Also I wouldn't be able to include the JNIOR android app in the web page :D
But something simple like this APK for a web server would be great to have! ;)
(possible include this page with an iframe or similar)
Configuration can be made on the Java page on one computer, that is not a problem. You do in once and sometime for a change...


Is there a simple "DAU way" for me, to do this?

If it is a standalone page, and I include it like with an iframe, it would ne independend from the php part



In my 2 Classic I have each 2 AUX, one is for the WBJR (shunt), one switches on the fan for the fork lift batteries while charging, the other 2 AUX are for manipulating the inverter (it is a good but dumb device, but makes interruptless switching from grid to battery) and I need 1 or 2 more AUX, so the JNIOR comes into the game.


Thanks ;)



At the moment I am working on a web page, will be somehow like "LCARS" (Star Trek) and the next version with gauges (here I am actualy also stuck with combining the code of the gauges with the existing php (or we need something else for a base), so just finish one project first, then the next)
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bscloutier

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 05:22:44 PM »
@binkino

So your first real issue is that you have a Series 3 JNIOR.  :( The current JNIOR line is the Series 4 and while they are almost a drop-in for standard applications (cinema for instance) they take a much improved approach to programming and management.

In either case you reach the command line through the RS-232 (COM) port (the one at the bottom next to the LAN port) with a serial connection. That's 115.2 Kbaud, 8 bits, 1 stop, no parity and no handshaking. We use USB-to-Serial adapters successfully. You can also get to the command line if the JNIOR shows up on the network with a Telnet connection. You can download the Support Tool from the INTEG site. That is a Windows application that will show the JNOR in its Beacon tab even if it is not properly configured for the network subnet. You can set your network configuration through that (when in doubt - right click).

The default administrator account is 'jnior' with password 'jnior'. There is a secondary administrator account 'admin' password 'admin'. Most of the Series 3 implementations are physically secure and therefore are often left with default passwords.

The WebServer function will serve regular web pages and does not have to use the Java applets. We no longer use Java on the web side for the Series 4. The Series 4 has a great web interface implemented using dynamic HTML and server-side PHP-like scripting. That does work on your phone. You can create really nice web pages on that product series.

With the Series 3 you can control everything but you need to use the JNIOR Protocol on port 9200. That is a binary protocol. We can get you the spec. In the software parlance that protocol has been deprecated. With the Series 4 we use a Websockets interface. That works through the same port as the Webserver and gives you a lot more capability. Instead of binary it is JSON based and is therefore human readable.

To program a Series 3 you would write some Java in say Netbeans. You then have to run the program files through a "converter" that creates a .TINI or .JNIOR program file that will execute. With the Series 4 I punted that approach. You now write the Java program against a runtime library JanosClasses.jar which you can get from the JNIOR itself. The .JAR files created by your compiler will run directly on the Series 4. No conversion or magic wand is needed. We do have programming instructions and tools available for the Series 3 that we can supply (might be on the website). That is, if you want to go that way.

Honestly, we cringe here in the office when we need to support Series 3 programming. We are all spoiled by the Series 4. So to do the fun stuff you want, you would be much better off with the new stuff. I don't want to trash our own legacy products too much as there are thousands and thousands of them out there getting the job done everyday. All I can tell you is that when we were given the chance to revise it, we did it right.

We will also support anyone pretty much for free who is implementing a JNIOR whether it is new, used, stolen or otherwise. We can help you put that Series 3 to use but first consider tracking down a Series 4 (410, 412, 414 or soon 412DMX). The 412DMX will control DMX lighting fixtures. You can also do DMX with a 410 and an adapter. Not that you are a DJ or anything. A lot of theaters are using DMX to control house lighting.

The Series 4 performs some 200X+ faster than a Series 3. That Series 3 takes a couple of minutes to fully boot. The Series 4 boots in 3 seconds.

uh... So the Series 3 is not recommended for new applications.

Bruce


binkino

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 06:38:01 PM »
Thanks, Bruce

Yes I used Telnet CLI (I forgot to write it above)


I appreciate it, if someone is honest with his products ;)


But I actually have no way to get a JNIOR4 and buying one is out of my budget at the moment ;)
I was thinking: hups now I have one, let's play with it and see, if it is possible to use/integrate it

But I will ask my friend of the cinema technicians, if a JNIOR4 is left for small money somehow...


I am a "dumb" in writing programs today; stopped after c64 and on Amiga I did not much more,
after that, I was happy Windos was running and now to much time has gone past and no time to start with something too complex) So I rely on others help
So after XP I am working on Linux Mint and sratching only on the surface, but your find for the most problems the infos in the web.
So also with the PIs ... at least, it works haha - somehow :D


I tried to have a script, that first opens the Telnet, log in, and then loads a text file, that has the next commands
(this way works for my FTP shortcuts on the Windos computer at work, to upload content or KDMs (digital keyfiles for the DCP cinema movies, and so on) to upload the content of a folder to all cinema servers (Doremi) via FTP
But it didn't work here as expected :D

The Doremi do establish a connection that stays connected, and then on event send the commands from a makro ("close relay #1 for 500ms" for example)


okay but if this is a "dead end road" for me, let's try other options ;)


Andy
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bscloutier

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 09:23:21 AM »
@binkino

Honestly we've been trying to figure out how to provide an incentive for customers (theaters for instance) to upgrade their Series 3 to a Series 4. Obviously the upgrades would bring revenue and I would expect that some people in the company think about that. From my perspective and that of the other engineers the Series 4 really represents what we wanted the product to be. The Series 4 (and we sometimes just say 410 implying the other models in the series as well) was developed from scratch. In fact, I solely am responsible for it from schematic, board layout, enclosure all the way including the firmware (the operating system we named JANOS). Whereas the 310 (and that series) came together differently and it was something I more or less inherited.

Now it is about putting our best foot forward. A lot of people are aware of "the JNIOR" and what the JNIOR can do. But, generally they are referring to the 310 and that makes me shudder a bit. Again, I need to point out that the Series 3 is a workhorse and has been reliable. It is a successful product. And, I fully understand the "if it is not broke, don't fix it" thinking.

Some theater chains have begun to replace their 310s with the 410. That ends up spilling a lot of 310s onto the market. Perhaps that is how you got yours. So people are trying to apply them to new applications. You certainly can and we are willing to help. It's just not the ideal version of the toy. The 410 is designed to be applied to a wide variety of things whereas the 310 has limitations and forces you to kludge a bit (like use Java applets on the web side).

The 310 uses the applets by the way because you can control the unit through the web interface. It has to open that binary connection to the 9200 port. Only an applet or PC application can do that. Now the applets are frowned upon and most browsers refuse to run them.

The JNIOR Protocol is the only way to control the 310. Well, you can open a Telnet connection to the command line and use the JRMON command to toggle relays. Some macros are implemented that way.

Anyway, let's see if we can't get you up and running with that 310 (or is it a 312 with 12 relay outputs?).


binkino

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2017, 11:14:33 AM »
That is development, next device is better then the one before (so it should be)
Experiences flow in the project, new ideas, etc. no problem ;)
It is what it is, and it is working fine all the time
It has done good service for us.

I have the 310 with 8i/8o
JNR-100-003B
and it is from our cinema #1,

While installed, in the last month it wasn't switching all outputs in the first show. And at last it didn't switch in any show anymore.

First, I guessed, some failure with the wiring, but it was all ok. Also changed the network switch/hub, cables, but the LED on the JNIOR were blinking on the LAN connector, so datas were send / traffic was there. But it did not execute.
Sometimes it switched the curtains, but not the upper lights in the cinema room, and so on.
So I rewired everything to the GPIO of the Doremi, as there were 4 I/O not longer connected, which were used before for the ROPA and CP500 (Dolby sound processor), DA-20 box, ... that all does not longer exist. I changed the makros in the Doremi and it worked, like nothing changed ;)

I took the 310 to my home and played with it.
After setting it up to my home network, it was running by command line in Telnet. No problems? okay ...
But then, while playing with it a time, I suddenly had no more answer in the Telnet for some minutes = so I think, this is kind of what happened in the cinema?
So then I updated the firmware in the 310 with your 'Support Tool' - that took some patient time, and then it was running again for many hours. No problems, I believe it is back in race again.

The 310 was working in cinema now for about 6 years ...  That is okay in my opinion ;)

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bscloutier

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2017, 01:17:54 PM »
Well this is not the place for JNIOR cinema JNIOR support. Nor am I the one for that as the cinema application and configuration is Rick's realm. What may be happening is that the battery has died. If the unit is not powered 24/7 the batteries drain faster and may only be lasting 6 years or so. The 410 by the way has a replaceable coin cell. Anyway, it probably messes with your configuration as something probably got forgotten and needed attention. There should be 3V on that battery.

The first step generally should be to call Rick in the office with any JNIOR issue. Otherwise he might sit there thinking that nothing fails. It might have saved you some of the trouble.


binkino

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2017, 02:11:31 PM »
oh hey thank you, good to know that there is a battery, just logical, I didn't think about a battery ...
I will check it ;)

Yes it is not 24/7 powered, we switch everything off over night.

Thank you! ;)
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bscloutier

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2017, 02:48:37 PM »
Unfortunately you'll need to be good with a soldering iron with the 310 and somewhat crafty to replace it. Any 3V battery will do the trick. The 310 is not in production and we don't have stock on the battery to be able to replace them.

But the battery isn't absolutely required. It maintains the clock. If it is configured to update from the network using NTP then the time should reset itself. The battery also maintains the file system outside of the /flash folder. So you lose logs and stuff like that.

When the 310 boots it loads its configuration registry from the /flash/jnior.ini file stored in flash. For cinema there should be a Run key in the registry to execute /flash/cinema.jnior. The point being that the dead battery might not have impacted the performance in the theater. But a power issue can cause headaches. Those units have <2MB of file flash.




binkino

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2017, 05:28:56 PM »
Thanks for the tip with checking the battery.
2.5V is not the best ... lol ... no question, why this baby didn't work anymore.
Normaly I am the first, opening devices and have a look inside haha

But I also wrote a mail to my friend technican, what he calls out a price for a 410 - so I know more where we can go with the ideas ;)
Possible he may have a used but working 410 one day for me? We will see.

We are not in hurry with it ;)

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bscloutier

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2017, 04:40:11 PM »
@binkino

You know, I'm not sure that the 2.4V on the battery is going to cause you any problems. I believe that it can go a bit lower and still get the job done. Sometimes a power glitch or some event causes a unit to trip over itself. Some setting accidentally gets changed or something. If you had called when the unit stopped working properly we might have quickly got it back on track. Anyway, your 310 might still be usable for whatever you have in mind. I know that you will be better off with the 410 but that 310 isn't trash yet.

binkino

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Re: Expanding the AUX in the Classic with a "JNIOR" Box?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2017, 01:09:38 PM »
I think it was a combination of low battery and power glitches. We will see, if it works, I have now a plan ;-)


My first task for the JNIOR 310:


Is this possible to write this makro? ...

I want to switch the 1phase wall plug (on this I charge my car) from grid to inverter, depending the charge state of my batteries, or manually.
That is set in the Classic, switches one AUX output.

On the simple way, this is an easy thing - take 2 big relays and a switch - or a relay thats connected to the AUX output of the classic.
But there is the big problem of sparks between the relay contacts, while switching the power sorces under load.
So we need a delay.

relay 1 / relay 2
ON - OFF
OFF - OFF
OFF - ON

The JNIOR could do that, right?

Let's say, one output is ON and the other is OFF

Classic switches 12V to the AUX output, this is connected to an input of JNIOR, and it changes the state of the 2 outputs with 1-2 seconds delay between opening one relay and closing the other relay?
And if the 12v are missing on this input, it opens the now closed relay and waits 1-2 seconds and closes the first relay again?

Also, I can manually controll this with the Android app?



Thanks ;)



PS: looks like I would have to write a program ... so not my favorit ;) let's see what else I have here ...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 10:07:28 AM by binkino »
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