Author Topic: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.  (Read 126 times)

Rafe

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Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« on: November 06, 2017, 08:11:03 PM »
Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight. This is charging 2X360Ah(720Ah 12 volt) LiFePo batteries & the battery management system of these batteries says approx 25% used & the classic says 3% so when it comes to charging the classic  goes into Absorb way before it should & the 1600 Watts of panels are being prevented from charging the Batteries fully. Is this something to do with the Classic "Resting" overnight does it turn itself off & how do I prevent this? It has a whizbang junior on the negative & the BMS runs off a shunt on the positive. Everything is as it should be. The manufacturers of the Batteries & BMS can not faulf the system.. Please. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. This set up is on a boat that I live on.

boB

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 08:16:32 PM »

Interesting...   I don't remember the Classic doing anything funny or weird at night with kW-Hours EXCEPT resetting the kW-Hours in-out at midnight but that is only from the Classic itself and not the WB Jr.

I wonder if the repeating reset to 100% charge when going from Absorb to Float has anything to do with it ?

boB
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ClassicCrazy

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 09:00:40 PM »
Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight. This is charging 2X360Ah(720Ah 12 volt) LiFePo batteries & the battery management system of these batteries says approx 25% used & the classic says 3% so when it comes to charging the classic  goes into Absorb way before it should & the 1600 Watts of panels are being prevented from charging the Batteries fully. Is this something to do with the Classic "Resting" overnight does it turn itself off & how do I prevent this? It has a whizbang junior on the negative & the BMS runs off a shunt on the positive. Everything is as it should be. The manufacturers of the Batteries & BMS can not faulf the system.. Please. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. This set up is on a boat that I live on.

What are your charging setpoints ?  How do you have it terminating the charge - via ending amps or  by time ?  And what do you have the battery capacity set for ?
Is it possible that the BMS is using a different capacity for the batteries than you have the Classic set for ?

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

Iboondock

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 12:04:36 AM »
Have you checked the nitelog setting under the Tweaks menu? If that's off, it may not be tracking the usage at rest.



Resthome

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 12:30:58 AM »
Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight. This is charging 2X360Ah(720Ah 12 volt) LiFePo batteries & the battery management system of these batteries says approx 25% used & the classic says 3% so when it comes to charging the classic  goes into Absorb way before it should & the 1600 Watts of panels are being prevented from charging the Batteries fully. Is this something to do with the Classic "Resting" overnight does it turn itself off & how do I prevent this? It has a whizbang junior on the negative & the BMS runs off a shunt on the positive. Everything is as it should be. The manufacturers of the Batteries & BMS can not faulf the system.. Please. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. This set up is on a boat that I live on.

I'm a little confused, you say it not reading Ah of usage overnight. The only time I see this get out of wack is if Equalized is used and a large amount of +Ah is accumulate the Net Ah has to count down the +Ah before it turns to a negative Net Ah.

 boB, you should reset Net Ah to zero after completing Equalized IMHO.

So have you looked at the + and - Ah and Net Ah on the MNGP or do you have a Lite Classic with no MNGP?

Larry is correct are both the Classic and BMS set to same battery capacity?

But they you talk about % which usually is used for SOC. 
John

10 x Kyocera KC140, Classic 150 w/WBJr, Link10 Battery Monitor, 850 AH @ 12v Solar One 2v cells, Xantrex PROwatt SW2000
Off Grid on Houseboat Lake Don Pedro, CA

Resthome

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 12:52:43 AM »
Have you checked the nitelog setting under the Tweaks menu? If that's off, it may not be tracking the usage at rest.

Nope, that setting doesn't effect the WBjr Ah readings.
John

10 x Kyocera KC140, Classic 150 w/WBJr, Link10 Battery Monitor, 850 AH @ 12v Solar One 2v cells, Xantrex PROwatt SW2000
Off Grid on Houseboat Lake Don Pedro, CA

dgd

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 01:23:47 AM »
.. the battery management system of these batteries says approx 25% used & the classic says 3% so when it comes to charging the classic  goes into Absorb way before it should 

So is the BMS connected to the Classic AUX to shut off charging when the BMS detects 100% capacity? Otherwise what is controlling the start Absorb? voltage?
Or perhaps you are using the Classic's SOC% in some way?

dgd
Classic 250, 150,  20 140w, 6 250w PVs, 2Kw turbine, MN ac Clipper, Epanel/MNdc, Trace SW3024E (1997), Century 1050Ah 24V FLA (1999). Arduino power monitoring and web server.  Off grid since 4/2000
West Auckland, New Zealand

ClassicCrazy

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2017, 01:42:33 AM »
The other thing that was mentioned is that the BMS has a shunt on the positive connection. It would have to be set up like the Whizbang is on the negative - in that the battery is the only wired connection on one side of the shunt  and everything else is on the other side.  Is it set up like this ?

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

Rafe

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 09:12:23 PM »
Gosh. Thanks folks. The Battery AH are set in both devises @720ah so no diff there.
The reset to 100% from 81 to 87% SOC on the BMS Does happen around when the classic150 goes to absorb boB. However given that in the morning, before sunup, the BMS will read (eg; 78%SOC example) & the 150 will say 97% SOC. Given there are 2 fridges & a freezer & lights & instruments & phones, computer etc etc on charge this usage 22% of the battery, would be about right. Why would the whiz bang not be reading it. I turned the WBj off to see what the difference was when relying on the Classic150's internal shunt (from the Manual) & now it shows no % reading for SOC so ???????
As to the shunts both + & - being wired the same. They are wired as per manufacturers specification.

ClassicCrazy

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2017, 09:29:50 PM »
The SOC in Classic only works with Whizbang.
The Classic is a little bit smarter on calculating SOC in that it takes the temperature into account and will derate the SOC - though if you have a lithium that shouldn't be a factor unless you set it up that way in Whizbang setup .
The SOC on the Classic also depends some on the efficiency you set it up for . What do you have the battery efficiency set for in the Classic.
The more important thing to look at instead of SOC is how many amp hours your devices have used . As the battery charges it should count the down back to zero.
So what do you have Battery Efficiency set to - and also what do you have Compensation / degree / C set for ?
Are your batteries warm and do you have any temperature compensation set ?
Also what are the Absorb , Float , and Ending amps setpoints ?

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

dgd

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 09:22:41 PM »
. However given that in the morning, before sunup, the BMS will read (eg; 78%SOC example) & the 150 will say 97% SOC. Given there are 2 fridges & a freezer & lights & instruments & phones, computer etc etc on charge this usage 22% of the battery, would be about right. Why would the whiz bang not be reading it. I turned the WBj off to see what the difference was when relying on the Classic150's internal shunt (from the Manual) & now it shows no % reading for SOC so ???????
As to the shunts both + & - being wired the same. They are wired as per manufacturers specification.

The Deltec shunt that the WBjr is connected to - one side of the shunt connects to the battery bank negative. Is it the only connection to the battery negative? there are no other devices connected direct to the battery negative?

dgd
Classic 250, 150,  20 140w, 6 250w PVs, 2Kw turbine, MN ac Clipper, Epanel/MNdc, Trace SW3024E (1997), Century 1050Ah 24V FLA (1999). Arduino power monitoring and web server.  Off grid since 4/2000
West Auckland, New Zealand

boB

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Re: Midnite classic 150 not reading Ah of usage overnight.
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 01:21:33 PM »
Gosh. Thanks folks. The Battery AH are set in both devises @720ah so no diff there.
The reset to 100% from 81 to 87% SOC on the BMS Does happen around when the classic150 goes to absorb boB. However given that in the morning, before sunup, the BMS will read (eg; 78%SOC example) & the 150 will say 97% SOC. Given there are 2 fridges & a freezer & lights & instruments & phones, computer etc etc on charge this usage 22% of the battery, would be about right. Why would the whiz bang not be reading it. I turned the WBj off to see what the difference was when relying on the Classic150's internal shunt (from the Manual) & now it shows no % reading for SOC so ???????
As to the shunts both + & - being wired the same. They are wired as per manufacturers specification.

Yeah, I'm not sure WHY the Classic would  stop reading WB Jr. Amp-Hours at night except that there is no solar charging at night.

I would think, based on other BMS's actions that the BMS would think the battery is fully charged when the voltage reaches Absorb.  Is your
Absorb timer set to a real small time like zero or 1 or 2 minutes ?  I think that is what some BMS's want to see and of course
the Classic should set its SOC to 100% at that time.

One thing to try, if you haven't already is in the TWEAKS menu, turn off the Net amp-hours Reset at FULL charge to
see if the NET Amp-Hours keeps its value.

What is your battery Amp-Hour charge efficiency set to ?  This may already be in this thread but I don't remember it.

What is that supposed to be for this battery ?

Other than questions, the WB Jr. readings should not care what time of day or night it is.

Also, to another question, the Classic LOGS do not store WB Jr. data.   It should but not enough time to
add that feature yet.

boB
K7IQ