Author Topic: Layout of a new 800w system  (Read 411 times)

UpNorthMan

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 06:42:44 PM »
I'll take your advice!!! I wasn't real excited with the dc wiring anyway. I was just trying not to have the larger fridge Inverter running all the time. I am looking at purchasing a 1500W Aims PS inverter because of my fridge. I am only planning on using it during the warmer months. Winter up here makes more then enough ice. It was -32F this weekend. So would you recommend a smaller inverter to run  my lights and ect... And a separate circuit to run my larger loads? I haven't finalized my battery voltage. Still on the fence about 24 or 48 volts. The efficiencies aren't as favorable with the larger inverter. Or am I over thinking it? Any thoughts?

Ed
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 07:29:51 PM by UpNorthMan »

CDN-VT

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2018, 08:58:47 PM »
over thinking it?
Yes , 48Vdc & since you have a fridge now & whats next , buy a good inverter @48Vdc & just one you can build with .
For NOW till all the Midnite inverters are released , Id pick OUTBACK with a mate  @ 120Vac 60hz


Now this one is what many might think ,1500 watts is good for a fridge & lights  BUT your maxed till you add in a genset to piggy back .=https://www.solar-electric.com/outback-gfx1548-grid-interactive-1500w-48v-60hz.html

This is what I would do : https://www.solar-electric.com/outback-power-vfxr3648a-hybrid-inverter.html
48Vdc , Mate  to program in your setup , grid tie (for resell later & costs only 45 bucks more, Ya didn't limit the resale ) More than enough power if you have sun & thats when work gets done . Sleep mode that's not as good as the SS300 , but the SS300 is 12Vdc only (Very limiting ) and since you moved up to 48Vdc your harvest is much better .

I'll add as Im needed to cook now

VT

Updated my pick
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 09:03:01 PM by CDN-VT »
Canadian Solar 350W 37.6 VOC  30.6 VMP 8.22 ISC 7.87 IMP ,-15 c +30c max  4 strings in 2 in Series for 24v Classic 150 -1020 Ah  Freezers & fridges ~~~ Second Array same panels of 3sx3 parallel for 24 V Classic 150 -440 Ah Outback Barns & out blds.
48Vdc almost done.

UpNorthMan

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 10:10:40 AM »
Any ideas when the Midnite inverters will be released? It would be nice to have the CC and inverter the same brand. Future integration and additional items added to the system would be easier to integrate and monitor.

ClassicCrazy

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 12:30:01 PM »
Any ideas when the Midnite inverters will be released? It would be nice to have the CC and inverter the same brand. Future integration and additional items added to the system would be easier to integrate and monitor.

It is probably going to be awhile on the inverters  - they have not even sent out any beta test units yet far as I know.  There usually are lots of bugs to work out so best to wait until they are on the market for awhile too - unless you can put up with incongruities.  If you are ready to get things up and running now better stick with the tried and true.

There is another long thread about the inverters on the forum .

Larry

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

Ron Swanson

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2018, 03:34:50 PM »
There is another long thread about the inverters on the forum .

Can you point us to it or remember what the title is?

The time is ripe for a new inverter to come to market since the competition has gone all corporate bureaucratic and won't listen to us any more.  The owners' most recent former company is getting worse by the day it seems.

ClassicCrazy

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 07:25:13 PM »
There is another long thread about the inverters on the forum .

Can you point us to it or remember what the title is?

The time is ripe for a new inverter to come to market since the competition has gone all corporate bureaucratic and won't listen to us any more.  The owners' most recent former company is getting worse by the day it seems.

here is one http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=602.0
here is another  http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=3770.0

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

Vic

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 07:44:56 PM »
   ...    I am looking at purchasing a 1500W Aims PS inverter because of my fridge

...Any thoughts?
Ed

Hi Ed,

There have been a number of folks,   who have been disappointed with AIMS  inverters.
Am not trying to bad-mouth products,  but  just look at the Tare (idle) power figures for the exact inverter that you are considering.

Also pay close attention to the maximum battery voltage limits for any inverter or inverter/charger that you are looking at,   particularly if you plan to use Flooded (FLA) batteries.  Cool/cold FLAs usually need high charge voltages in Absorb and EQ.

AIMS has concentrated on the low-cost end of the market,  generally,   and   there often are important things lost,  when companies focus too much on cost.

At 1500 (real) Pure Sine output power,  you are really beyond the capabilities of reasonably rational 12 V systems  (as you probably know).

FWIW,   opinions,   Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

UpNorthMan

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2018, 08:18:32 PM »
Thanks for all your input! I won't need one for a few months, May, June time frame. Maybe by then, some will be released. I would volunteer to be a beta tester if needed , but I not really qualified. I am doing my research and looking for the right stuff. I don't like the China stuff. I work in manufacturing and see that quality isn't usually the highest item on the list. I wasn't aware when I first posted the Aims inverter the origin of manufacturing. My load won't be very large 95+ % of the time. I will have a few larger loads for short periods. My wife wants a small microwave, a vacuum, and power tools for me from time to time. Any construction would be done with a generator. This brings me to 2000 watts, 1500 minimum. Most power consumption will be led lights, a radio and small fridge.

I have settled on a 48v battery system. I do have time, I'll keep planning the rest of my project. When the time comes, I will have to cross that bridge. Hopefully Midnite will be starting production!

Ed
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 08:22:06 PM by UpNorthMan »

Westbranch

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2018, 08:38:24 PM »
Ed, don't be swayed too easily on the fridge front, by the word INVERTER.  Most of the inverter types so far are in the highest features/biggest size fridges /most costly range....  there a lot of the freezer on top models that use less power and are running at 1/3 of the price...  We got an on-the-floor-model from Sears rated at < 1 Kwh / day with low startup load ~30A, running 7A or less... You will have to search the tables published yearly by your Gov and ours. 2018 version should be out now.

have fun there are a lot in the lists.
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub Hughes 1100 Sat. Modem
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

UpNorthMan

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2018, 09:36:02 PM »
For now my power usage will be low for the cabin. As time goes on, our needs and knowledge will grow also. So a adaptable system is a must. Or plan some components oversized. That can work, but that can easily rack up extra$ spent and then if something breaks, its more expensive to fix. With modular equipment, a person can add to, if demand grows. Or we should have bought part "B" instead of "A"

I like the USA stuff higher quality, more durable, better support, and from my research, best warranties.

48v stuff seams to be less available. Quite a lot less choices.

I checked out the MidNite inverter links mentioned above. Sounds like there is still a little R&D going on. Looks like more Great products coming.
 I will wait patiently like the rest.

Ed

CDN-VT

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2018, 11:19:51 PM »
Ed, don't be swayed too easily on the fridge front, by the word INVERTER.  Most of the inverter types so far are in the highest features/biggest size fridges /most costly range....  there a lot of the freezer on top models that use less power and are running at 1/3 of the price...  We got an on-the-floor-model from Sears rated at < 1 Kwh / day with low startup load ~30A, running 7A or less... You will have to search the tables published yearly by your Gov and ours. 2018 version should be out now.

have fun there are a lot in the lists.
On Westbranchs  info I do Agree 90 %  BUT !!
I run 8 freezers here  & a few that double in to a fridge , all chest  type & NO electronics on them , just the old up to 2001 style and older .
No I live in power winks (storms etc) and outages , like if your 1500 watt inverter see you pull the switch on the drill , wife turns on the microwave & the freezer want s to fire up on it's demand . Too many of those will kill a  TIMED-X (programmed in ) fail on the electronics . Hence why all my stuff is click & clunk & NO electronics  here.

Neighbour farm is Angus beef , 6units 25CF freezers , he losses one a year , with extended warranty he has them replaced but that's from first purchased date.  I know this cuz I store his beef till a replacement arrives . Were Grid tied ..
JFI


& ed , your not looking at the right places for the 48Vdc stuff , Thats the best & the least the companys make because of one sale . 12Vdc is the bottom & everybody wants to sell & then upsell .

Its out there , I have it & im in the USSCAN  with the worst customs of any country beside the Philippians..

VT
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 10:40:21 PM by CDN-VT »
Canadian Solar 350W 37.6 VOC  30.6 VMP 8.22 ISC 7.87 IMP ,-15 c +30c max  4 strings in 2 in Series for 24v Classic 150 -1020 Ah  Freezers & fridges ~~~ Second Array same panels of 3sx3 parallel for 24 V Classic 150 -440 Ah Outback Barns & out blds.
48Vdc almost done.

UpNorthMan

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2018, 05:57:43 PM »
I realize that 2000w would be a absolute min size. With the potential of high power surges and demand, I would have to carefully watch my usage. The VFXR3648A that was suggested does look to be the front runner at this point. Schneider and Magnum also seem compatible. The concern right now is the high voltage limit for charging. If I show up to the cabin in the dead of winter at -30F and for some reason the panels weren't charging the batteries correctly, or my batteries are low. I need an inverter/charger that can also handle 8.5+ volts above a standard charge voltage to compensate for the low temp. (If my math is correct for a 48v system,Trojan batteries) I plan on having a small heater in a very insulated battery box to keep the batteries a decent temp. If the temp gets to low, the battery capacity will drop to far. A 3600W inverter will handle what I need. I realize charging will also warm the batteries, but I don't want to have to worry to much about the batteries. If all else fails, I can have a neighbor/friend grab the generator and fire it up for a few hours to save them. I have a small fridge with a freezer that is rated for .8amps. Just a few cubic feet, we aren't overly concerned about the fridge at this point. As time goes on and we expand our usage, I have allowed room for expansion.

My first thought on the whole system was to make it just big enough to get it going for a few years and expand as needed. Minimal startup cost. But, as probably most, I've learned that somethings you don't go to cheap on. The knowledge and advice on this forum has been very helpful!!!! ;D ;D ;D

Back to the inverter, is there a option on the VFXR3648A to set a max draw from the battery? lets say 2500w? I'm looking at max battery draw, not the max charge amps. Max charging amps is a settable parameter. I don't know if I'll need it, but I may.

I'm also hoping the the salt batteries are back into production when I pull the trigger on the inverter and batteries. I am only being optimistic, it's easier! With the old price and spec's, I couldn't afford  the 5+ batteries at one time. I thought I read about 14.5a max draw per 48V battery. Like I said, my cup is half full!! I'm not saying what's in it though. ;D ;D ;D

Are there any other suggestions for inverter/charger. 120v, 60 cycles, single phase, pure sine, low temp comp for charging, 48v solar system, 3-4 k watt input.

Thanks
Ed





ClassicCrazy

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2018, 06:32:40 PM »
If you look at specs you will see that Gel type batteries have pretty decent performance in very cold temperatures.
These are a type of gel called lead crystal
I haven't seen a lot of feed back on them - hopefully they live up to their claims
http://soneil.com/advance-technology-battery/performance/

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

Westbranch

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2018, 08:05:40 PM »
Ed, what are the temps you are using for your  winter LOW? range? duration?
I have a standalone charger with Temp correction now and it will be my backup once I finish building...
I did not come upon a max minimum temp listed for any of the ones I looked at.
What you may find is you will not get as many amps in the available chargers as you want... and be careful of Industrial FORKLIFT chargers , that do not use the BULK, ABSORB, FLOAT pattern
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub Hughes 1100 Sat. Modem
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

UpNorthMan

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Re: Layout of a new 800w system
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2018, 10:47:39 PM »
Table 16 page 65 of the operators manual states
" DC OUTPUT RANGE (Charging) 42 to 68 Vdc"
Bulk charge per Trojan is 59.28 @77F
-/+.0028V per deg per cell from 77F
At 0F it would be .0028*24*77 = 5.1744 volts (comp per cell * number of cells * temp difference)
59.28+5.1744 =64.4544volts @0F
It could easily be colder for long duration's ,often in the dead of winter it can stay below zero for a high.

A lot of the cheaper inverter/chargers don't state that they won't reach this high of voltage.
Just something that I hope I won't need, but for the price of a larger one, I think it's worth looking at.

Ed