Classic unresponsive

[kitestrings]

Hi Folks,

We've had two Classic 250's operating on a home-built wind system now for about four years:

CL00415, CL00418, purchased 03/29/11; factory update 11/04/13, Rev 1408

They are configured such that the first unit takes the first ~2.5 kW and then current limits and passes any excess to the second unit - in much the way Ryan had done on a system he assisted with (a neighbor I believe).  It's been working quite nicely.

We use Aux1 on the second unit as a dry contact relay to signal an actuator which furls the tail from the house, either manually or based on input voltage (PV V High).  I've noticed twice now that the relay was unresponsive.  It happened just last night.  No light; no audible click no response form the actuator.  What I also noticed was that on the display the unit was no longer tracking input voltage, or showing any output.  It was windy, so it was not a case of it dropping back into 'resting' and a lower voltage displayed.  What I noted was that the voltage displayed was just not changing.

I re-powered the unit - which I had done the power time this happened - and it came back up with full functionality, including Aux1.  Has anyone else seen this?  I'm also wondering if the unit is in fact working during this anomaly, but just not communicating to the display, or if it is frozen functionally which would be of greater concern.

I'll mention one other thing - the first unit wakes just below the cut-in of the turbine, 59V, the second unit wakes at 85V, and starts producing ore meaningfully at ~105V.  At times, when the wind is fluctuating, we can go from a few hundred watts to 3-4 kW in pretty short order.  I'm just wondering if there is any sort of self-protection that comes into play if the unit sees an abrupt uptick - though we've never been anywhere near the voltage limits of things (130-140V is our historic max)?

Thx for any help, ~ks

[CDN-VT]

First thing for ME is I use the Classics / and all others AUX internal relays to power the external Bosch or car style relays & they might power a relay to command a AC pair ..
The Bosch relay DC feed from the classics or units are always capped so no High voltage spikes are seen on any micro relay that is an internal board repair.

VT

[kitestrings]

Hmm, good thought.  When you say,

The Bosch relay DC feed from the classics or units are always capped

Are you saying the Bosch relays have built-in capacitor filtering?

It is a very long run between the tower and the house (described in link below), and we're using a twin-pair of unused phone lines for the underground section of it.  I'd lost one of Aux1 relays in a lightning storm back in August...so we know that transients could be a factor.  I did ground the cable shielding since this occured.
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,149230.0.html

The controller requires virtually no load - about 1.6 mA IIRC - rather it just is responding to the presence of source voltage, or not.

Anyway, I'm watching for this more often now, but I also wondered if there might be a combination of key-pad strokes on the MNGD that I'm somehow inadvertently hitting, putting it into a suspended mode of some sort.  Thanks for the response.

[CDN-VT]

Let me give this a good read & see if I can find the Bosch relay # I use . I do it this way because the Classic needs to be sent in for repair & if I configure it to send 12Vdc out , I use 3ma to trip a Bosch relay that can handle 40Amps @ 12Vdc .

I'll edit after I read , we were in a snow storm all morn-now so no interweb

VT

Read & got the wiring of the actuator . Now to find my Bosch # or Helia Any German made relay , Spain & Portugal are not used here.
VT

[Vic]

It is possible that the Bosch relay/s  have a diode connected in reverse across the coil,  to clamp the high-is voltage spike caused by the collapsing magnetic field,  when the relay is de-energized.   But,  in that case,   there would be (should be)  one terminal on the coil  with a + designation,  so the diode is not forward-biased if the coil is connected improperly (12 V connected reversed of that intended).

I do not know,   as have seldom used these Automotive type relays.

FWIW,   Vic

[CDN-VT]

the relays are Numbered 85 ,86,30 , 87 , 87a  for the old style as your describing with the  diode connected in reverse across the coil,.

Prior to Space cars those were used , Now with LAN , CAN (local Area Network , Central AN )LIN / LEN ( Local Internal Network ,Local Extra  network ) and 3 more , the relays are still needed but must BE Clean .

The new Use A diode & a cap on the diode . Micro & Normal 30 Amp & maxi @ 40 Amps .

I'll get #'s tomorrow & see if I can get better info from Bosch

VT
In the Euro automotive ISO world
86 is feed power+ 85 is the ground- to pull the relay NO or NC type Coil
30  is main big power  to feed 87 or 87a 

14100455, Relay is Hella
Some micro relays don't have a schematic on the side , so it's in the manufacture literature .

I brought one back from the hanger , i'll see if I can get a pix of the side
this is a 12Vdc 30 Amp , at this size max amps is 40 & 12Vdc for the sizing .


The sides of the other relays  I took a pix of & they are embossed & that is poor for my photo ability
.

So if you look close , you will see Caps , Diodes , transistors Z-diodes ect.

So that is why I don't ask the classic to control main power , I ask the classic to control a relay to control external & the classic internal Aux1 is fused & max load @12Vdc is less than 10ma ..

VT