1,400W @ 12VDC

Started by ZoNiE, January 20, 2018, 05:34:42 PM

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ZoNiE

Hi Folks, Looking to put a new system together on my new to me Motorhome, and it looks like I can fit five 280W Hanhwa panels (which I already have) instead of four. The sizing tool gives me # of Classic 150's @ 1.1, array power Excessive. Given that I probably will never get full output of all five panels, and the sizing tool suggests adding another classic at 1.2, I should be OK?

The backup plan is to just use four in 2x2 config for 1,120W, but if I have the room...
Daily Driver: 2013 Toyota Rav4EV with Tesla Guts...
Solar Project:
1996 Safari Sahara Class A Motorhome with:
4X Hanhwa 280W panels
1X Midnight Classic-150
4X  Dying WallyWorld Energizer GC2's bought by the PO
1X 2,000W Heart Interface Freedom 20 Inverter/Charger
1X Onan Emerald 6300LP RV Genset

ClassicCrazy

#1
Can you post the results of the string sizing tool ?
Was it that you had 5 panels in series and the VOC was too high ?
You are better off going with 2x2 because the lower string voltage is closer to the 12v which means the Classic does not need go from such a high voltage to low - more efficient and the classic does not get so hot.
As for the extra panel - there may be some other options without using the Classic if you need the power .
How any batteries do you have ?  Do you already have a 12v inverter ?
Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

ZoNiE

I've looked at it two different ways. 2x2 or 1x5 in parallel.
Voltage is only 36V in the 5x1 so 3x.
2x2 gives me 72V

I don't have a place to host photos currently...
Panel details:
Power 280
Voc 44.3
Vmp 36.1
Isc 8.4
Imp 7.76

12V system
4X GC2s' in 2x2 setup.



Daily Driver: 2013 Toyota Rav4EV with Tesla Guts...
Solar Project:
1996 Safari Sahara Class A Motorhome with:
4X Hanhwa 280W panels
1X Midnight Classic-150
4X  Dying WallyWorld Energizer GC2's bought by the PO
1X 2,000W Heart Interface Freedom 20 Inverter/Charger
1X Onan Emerald 6300LP RV Genset

mike90045

I'd wire all the panels in parallel.   Better in case of shading, lower conversion voltage, 36V converted to 16V is just fine.
The classic will limit power to its safe operating zone, but beware, you will be hearing the cooling fans in the daytime.
You will be at the output amps limit, and will have enough amps to really charge the batteries hard.
You will need a 6 port combiner box & breakers (use the series fuse on the PV panel label. as the breaker amps) Midnight has a good set of these.
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

dbcollen

You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill with this closer voltage stuff. A slight difference in efficiency in the charge controller really makes no difference, there is already too much panel, surely it is ok to waste a few watts in the charge controller. The Gudgel Brothers designed the thermal management in the classic to deal with that extra heat. Also higher string voltages will start charging in lower light and supply more watts during overcast conditions.

Just my $0.02
Dustin

ClassicCrazy

Quote from: dbcollen on January 21, 2018, 10:10:59 AM
You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill with this closer voltage stuff. A slight difference in efficiency in the charge controller really makes no difference, there is already too much panel, surely it is ok to waste a few watts in the charge controller. The Gudgel Brothers designed the thermal management in the classic to deal with that extra heat. Also higher string voltages will start charging in lower light and supply more watts during overcast conditions.

Just my $0.02
Dustin
I have 5 135 watt Kyocera in series  x 4 strings  charging 24v and never had any issues with the controller. But if I had the option to wire them up so the controller didn't get as hot and fans didn't have to do so much work cooling it off - why not make that design decision in the beginning - especially if it is in an RV or hotter climate ?  That would just seem like good engineering .

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

ZoNiE

I'm thinking I'll just stick with the 2 x 2 series/parallel setup. The higher voltage in low light is the benefit. With my prior RV, the three KC135's were all in parallel and the Midnight Kid used to power cycle a few times in the morning, which, with the controller near the bed, usually woke me up...  ::) More input voltage should eliminate that. The fifth panel was gonna be a tight fit anyway. It'll make a nice conference table at my office.

The idea of not maxing out the electronics is a good one.

I have the combiner box already, a European fusebox with a din rail that I picked up for 11 euros in France for "some solar project someday" . It has enough room for the four panel breakers, the breaker to the charge controller, and the breaker from the controller to the battery bank.

Time to complete my cart at Northern AZ wind and sun... Their prices cannot be beat.
Daily Driver: 2013 Toyota Rav4EV with Tesla Guts...
Solar Project:
1996 Safari Sahara Class A Motorhome with:
4X Hanhwa 280W panels
1X Midnight Classic-150
4X  Dying WallyWorld Energizer GC2's bought by the PO
1X 2,000W Heart Interface Freedom 20 Inverter/Charger
1X Onan Emerald 6300LP RV Genset

Vic

Quote from: dbcollen on January 21, 2018, 10:10:59 AM
   ...    Also higher string voltages will start charging in lower light and supply more watts during overcast conditions.

Just my $0.02
Dustin

IMO,  with an MPPT CC,   and a string configuration appropriate for the environment of the PVs,   a higher string voltage should really make NO difference in early morning,   or cloudy weather charge capability.

It is about the power that the PVs produce at any one time that counts.  As long as the Vin to the CC is above the battery voltage at that time by enough margin for the Converter to run,   and there is enough current available to charge the battery,   a good MPPT CC will be able to charge the battery.

A high-ish voltage from pre-sunrise illumination,   often will not produce enough current to make meaningful power  --  the CC may well wake-up  and try to charge,   but with MNMPPT CCs  If there is not enough power for the CC to run the Converter,   AND actually add some charge to the battery,  the CC will go back to Resting,   and try again in a while.

Just my penny's-worth,   FWIW,   Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

ZoNiE

Well, the Kyocera's were barely over charge voltage @17V If I recall, and these 280's will be double that already...Maybe all parallel...
Daily Driver: 2013 Toyota Rav4EV with Tesla Guts...
Solar Project:
1996 Safari Sahara Class A Motorhome with:
4X Hanhwa 280W panels
1X Midnight Classic-150
4X  Dying WallyWorld Energizer GC2's bought by the PO
1X 2,000W Heart Interface Freedom 20 Inverter/Charger
1X Onan Emerald 6300LP RV Genset

Vic

Hi ZoNie,

On the Kyos,   YES,   that was really too low Vin to an MPPT CC,   not the best power production,  in general,   AND  could have been a problem EQing Flooded batteries,   particularly when they were cool/cold.

For your 72-cell PVs with a Vmp of about 36 V,   this should be fine.   For RVs,   parallel is often preferred (if they have a sufficiently high Vmp for MPPT CC),   as the effects of shading can be reduced,  vs  strings of two or more PVs.

If you can keep  CCs and batteries out of bedrooms you are often better off.

Good Luck,   Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

ZoNiE

I went parallel on all four. Have had good wattage when two were in the shade. I ended up also only using four panels, 1,120W.
Daily Driver: 2013 Toyota Rav4EV with Tesla Guts...
Solar Project:
1996 Safari Sahara Class A Motorhome with:
4X Hanhwa 280W panels
1X Midnight Classic-150
4X  Dying WallyWorld Energizer GC2's bought by the PO
1X 2,000W Heart Interface Freedom 20 Inverter/Charger
1X Onan Emerald 6300LP RV Genset