Author Topic: Adding Vents to the Classic 150  (Read 1279 times)

Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2018, 01:44:34 PM »
Hi Matrix,

That sink,   with the Classic on top looks good.

Believe that you could "mill" the part of the air channel for the Turbo fan down a bit on its back side.   Perhaps you could use coarse sandpaper that is on a flat surface to do this.

As you know,   this air channel guides air up,   and around the heat dissipating nibs that are behind the FET mounting rib.   If you need to mill so much of that air channel that there is a bit of a slot formed between the plastic air channel and the Classic case,  you could carefully caulk any gap with Silicone caulk.

Am certain that the back of the Classic case is not truly dead flat,   but your heatsink will be an interesting experiment,   and your reports on its function will be beneficial for many of us here.

I am wondering what a piece of copper shim,  slightly thicker than the plastic air channel would do if I made it the size of the back of the CC and cut out for the air channel so that the air channel was no longer a problem.  That way all metal on the CC would contact copper and all the copper would contact the sink.   

A friend of mine who does computers said there was once a lap top model that was over heating and being recalled,  but people like him were fixing them with copper shims ... similar but on a smaller scale to what I'm doing.  He is shopping for me some copper today about the thickness of a quarter.    That should do it.  And should get me great contact and heat transfer.
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Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2018, 01:54:18 PM »
So what is a Good Battery Killing Temp?   What should be the target for discharge and charge temps? 

BUT ... I just had a massive brain thought !!!!!

Because my battery box sits next to my house,  and I have a craw space that is 4' tall,  AND my lower vent of the battery box is facing the house (and pulled off the house about 3"s.  But I could easily add a 4" piece of PVC pipe  or 2 from the bottom of the box,  and up under the house to draw cooler summer air from up under the house effectively cooling the battery box even more.   And added benefit,  it the winter,  my under house is ALWAYS warmer than the outside air,  so it would possibly also help warm the batteries in the winter.  Hmmmmm  ???

 For that matter I could run a 2nd 12v 4" fan off AUX 1  in the pipe to blow under house air into the box from the bottom.  It would vent out the top.  So gas mingling with sparks / archs from the fan would not be a problem BC the fan would be low (gas rises) and not even in the box ... it could be mounted several feet away on a pipe.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:56:49 PM by Matrix »
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REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2565w-STC 1926w-NMOT Array / Classic 150 / Conext SW 4024 Inverter
Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S  with 7' of 4/0 cable
24 volt system /  Need 3200Whs Daily
My System Install

Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2018, 02:01:02 PM »
Well update after 45 minutes of Fan

Water heater is heating,  Fan is blowing,  Charger is finishing up the batteries and the CC is pumping out 46.1 amps. 

Out side air is not really a factor at 55°F
But the control room is 63.1°F  so pretty close to yesterday. 
But the Temps on the FET / PCB is the lowest it has ever been.

Not much of a test yet,  but I will let you know know as the week progresses and we warm up.    So far so good
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Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S  with 7' of 4/0 cable
24 volt system /  Need 3200Whs Daily
My System Install

Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2018, 07:21:52 PM »
Well the larger amp 4" fan wont work. Keeps shutting the CC down and causes it to restart.  OR at best you can hear it drag down the RPM of the internal fans.  So  I guess I am "stuck" with the lesser amp 4" fan.   

Good news is ... today the FET / PBC was the coolest I have seen.
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Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S  with 7' of 4/0 cable
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ClassicCrazy

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2018, 09:07:30 PM »
Well the larger amp 4" fan wont work. Keeps shutting the CC down and causes it to restart.  OR at best you can hear it drag down the RPM of the internal fans.  So  I guess I am "stuck" with the lesser amp 4" fan.   

Good news is ... today the FET / PBC was the coolest I have seen.

The Classic can only supply so much power at the AUX relays - should be documented in the manual.
You would have to use a relay to get the larger fan to work.

I don't know what the worst temps are for batteries. The warmer they are the faster they age.  Room temp is okay but lower than that is probably better since you need to compensate for the internal heating that happens when they are charging. Battery manual might have some temp compensation graphs showing what happens to capacity when they are either hot or cold.

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

Vic

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2018, 10:07:16 PM »
Hi Matrix,

Yes,   Larry is correct.   The Aux outputs can only supply
***  EDIT:   200 mA of current (0.2 Amps)  ***.   If that is  exceeded,   believe that the Classic re-boots,   as some of the control electronics in the Classic are also dragged below operating voltage.   There is a self-resetting current limiter that protects the Classic from providing too much current on the Aux outputs.

On Flooded and other Lead Acid batteries,   cooler is better.   IMO,  about 50 F would be fine.

For  each 10 degree C (18 F) temperature increase above about 75 F battery life is halved,   and for every 10 degree C decrease below 75 F,   battery life is doubled. BUT,   one must really look at average temperature for each day,   as the total time spent at a given temperature is what counts,   not just a momentary excursion.

Most batteries have a lot of thermal mass,   so,  their temperature  change is relatively slow.

FWIW,   IMO,   Vic
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 02:04:12 PM by Vic »
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2018, 11:35:15 PM »
Hi Matrix,

The Aux outputs can only supply 500 mA of current (0.5 Amps).   If that is  exceeded,   believe that the Classic re-boots...
Oh Yeah ... it does.  :D   My big fan was .7 amps and my smaller fan was .18 amps.  both are 4".

I really dont need the big fan.  I think I have the heat under control now for the CC.   I will probably get some copper to space under it to compensate for the air channel,  but other than that,  I think I am golden.

the battery box and batteries probably will need better ventilation and I am thinking under house air might be the ticket.    I just will not be able to run a 2nd  fan off the AUX to push the air in from under the house  as I might have thought.  Unless you mean that the CC can supply 500 mA for each AUX.  Could I run a small 2nd fan off AUX 2 that is running the Whiz Bang jR?    It would be on all the time, but that would not bother much. 

Or could I run a fan off the battery directly?   24v?  Some way to step it down to 12v?

Thanks guys,  you are the best.  Very patient and helpful.   
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 11:49:55 PM by Matrix »
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Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2018, 12:04:23 AM »
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mike90045

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2018, 12:59:29 AM »
Likely better to make the "shim" or spacer, from aluminum and not copper.  Copper is a better thermal conductor, but you are making a sandwich of differing expansion coefficients.

Heat sink greases:
 Beryllium is a good thermal conductor, but toxic.  only a tiny bit better than copper
 Zinc Oxide is an ok grease,
Silver powder is awfully good.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2018, 08:39:49 AM »
Thanks Mike,

Hey looking at your FB picks,  I see a battery box in a building.  How do you keep those batteries cool?   OR maybe where you are temp is not that big of an issue. As I start to move into summer cooling is going to be my next project,  cooling the batteries.   

Also,  how is that Battery Saver working out?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 08:42:10 AM by Matrix »
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Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S  with 7' of 4/0 cable
24 volt system /  Need 3200Whs Daily
My System Install

Vic

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2018, 02:12:13 PM »
AND,   Matrix:

Sorry,   I was WRONG on the amount of current that the Classic Aux outputs can source.   The correct value IS 200 mA.

I did edit the earlier post to correct that ...   

Our battery banks sit in an insulated box.   There is a hinged top cover,   which always remains open,   these days.   A window A/C  is above this box,  about 3.5 feet.   At times there is a 120 VAC circulating fan that runs on a timer,  usually Spring,  Summer,   and Fall.  There should really be two fans,   ...   someday.

Have never tried to retain battery heat in the Winter,   as the climate here is fairly moderate.

Cooler is better for our FLA batteries,   in general.

FWIW,   Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2018, 08:22:00 AM »
OK, have not seen a temp on the FETs higher than 59°C since the install of the sink / fan.   But not a good test day yet until today.  Expect temps to "sore" to nearly 80°F outside.  So today will be the test if I hit 70°C on the FETs as I have in the past at that temp.
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ralph day

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2018, 08:44:45 AM »
matrix, my CC is mounted on my old Xantrex powerboard (metal) and the fan blows down from above.  The basement temp is low 20's Celsius year round.  I've heard the Classic 250 for my wind turbine run before, but not the solar Classic. 

Ralph

mike90045

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2018, 12:44:15 PM »
batteries in a building.   Yep, they just ride with the ambient temps. 95f days in the summer, 25f nights in the winter.  But they have little self heating, and so are mostly just ambient
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

Matrix

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Re: Adding Vents to the Classic 150
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2018, 06:55:36 PM »
Likely better to make the "shim" or spacer, from aluminum and not copper.  Copper is a better thermal conductor, but you are making a sandwich of differing expansion coefficients.

Heat sink greases:
 Beryllium is a good thermal conductor, but toxic.  only a tiny bit better than copper
 Zinc Oxide is an ok grease,
Silver powder is awfully good.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html

Got a nice piece of 28 gauge aluminum today.  So all I need to do is cut it to size for a shim under the Classic. 
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REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2565w-STC 1926w-NMOT Array / Classic 150 / Conext SW 4024 Inverter
Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S  with 7' of 4/0 cable
24 volt system /  Need 3200Whs Daily
My System Install