Need help with power disruption

[TrustinHim]

What I know for sure is that I know very little.

I am getting power surges/power cutting off while inverting. The results are my TV center, office and computers and clocks etc lose power for just a millisecond or so. The modem then reboots, the APC on the computer was kicked on and some clocks lose time. This occurs about 3-4 times a day.

I Use a Prewired Magnum MS4448 with a kid 250 CC. 2.5 kw array in an otherwise nicely working system.
Power will shut off during charge or float, different times of day. I do not recall this problem happening at night.
VOC set to 80, then tried 70 no apparent change. (maybe power cut out more often at 70, but not sure). Went back to 80 VOC.

Watt search set to off.

...and don't know what else to do.

Thanks for any ideas.

Sparky-

[Matrix]

That is indeed an odd situation as you describe it. 

Have you tried a complete reset to factory defaults?   That sometimes clears my Schneider SW's head.  But it's weird anyway.   How long has the system been up and running before the problem?  Did it function normally all that time?   Do you have anything that would be a short large load,   like a pump or water heater element of something?   Has the skies been clearish enough to generate the charge and the loads?

What you are describing sounds like an inverter low voltage cut off issue during short (even just startup) heavy loads.   If there is a setting to NOT off for XX number of seconds I would say try that,  but it does not sound like you are getting down to LVC.

[TrustinHim]

The system has been up and running for a few years, but not used to full capacity this whole time. These surges have taken place since I can remember. I have never tried to restore factory settings but I am willing to try. My firmware was last updated about 2 years ago, but does not seem to have anything to do with it.

There have been clear skies in the past to produce 90+ amps but that did not seem to affect the surging in any way.
The only other issue I can recall is the clocks on the appliances run slow but I am learning this is normal.

I will need to do some homework before I reset to factory defaults, but that is what I will be looking into now.
Maybe the first step is to record the settings as they are now. Will this reset the settings in the remote switch and the kid cc?

Thanks again-

[TrustinHim]

Also, is there a fix for the Classic lcd screen getting blurred out? If I remove the cover and or power off and on, the screen comes back but for only a short period of time.

Thank you.

[Matrix]

Just to be clear, I was talking about a reset in the Magnum. And that should have no effect on the kid

But after the inverter reset, once you've got all the parameters loaded back in, if the issue continues, would not hurt to reset the kid.

But this may wind up being a call to Magnum

[ClassicCrazy]

It almost sounds like when too many loads are on or one of the loads surges it pulls the battery voltage down enough to reset or briefly shut down the inverter .

You should check all the connections on your batteries and everywhere else . Also maybe turn all the loads on and check the battery voltage and see if it takes a dive .

Not sure what kind of batteries you have but it could be some cells are failing. Or there is a loose connection somewhere - could be in a the prewired panel too - have to check everything and make sure they are tight and that nothing got hot or crusty from being loose.

I do not understand what you mean by saying that you changed the Voc - that is open circuit of the PV panels.

Larry

[TrustinHim]

Thanks for pointing me back to the Magnum trail.
It was an email from Magnum that told me to change VOC 70, and turn watt search mode off.

It almost sounds like when too many loads are on or one of the loads surges it pulls the battery voltage down enough to reset or briefly shut down the inverter .

You should check all the connections on your batteries and everywhere else . Also maybe turn all the loads on and check the battery voltage and see if it takes a dive .

I will reset the Magnum shortly, and then test again.

The batteries are Rolls Surrette 6v 550 with nice thick cables that are crimped and soldered. The bolts are tight and the cables never get hot and don't move. The battery bank is original to the system which is about 3 years old. I would almost rule out the batteries and their connections.

The loads that are in the sub panel are not overly large. Lighting, tv, computers and such. Never draws more than 12 amps at maximum. Theses surges I have been describing will occur sometimes with battery voltage at 52 or even higher.

I don't know what I mean by saying I changed Voc either. 
In the Magnum remote settings I changed VOC to 70, this was advised from an email at Magnum. It didn't seem to have much of an affect.

Matrix and Classic Crazy. Thanks for the trouble shooting. I will report back with as much info as I can find.

At this point I am going to shut er down, check my connections thoroughly in the panel and then reset the Magnum.

Thank you-

I will check the prewired panel further, when I kill power to everything, I will check each and every connection.



 

[ClassicCrazy]

Also check the wire connections at breakers .

Larry

[Matrix]

Also if you have a temperature gun which you can purchase at a home improvement center or Harbor Freight fairly cheaply you can get the temperature readings at every connection there shouldn't be much more than a degree in Fahrenheit of temperature between anyone connection sometimes you can't feel the heat but a temp gun will tell you that something is getting hotter than other things

[Vic]

Hi Trust..,

Many of the most common causes for an Inverter dropping off-line have been covered.

When checking ALL of the wire connections,   there are Torque specs for all of them.   In particular,   cable connections which use a screw at the contact point must be re-torqued after one day or so,   after installation.   And checked every six months or one year.   Often these will need a partial turn of the screw,  after some months.

When the batteries were first installed,  the flag terminals should have been lightly burnished,  and completely coated with Petroleum jelly.   Then,  the connecting bolts for the Tin-plated terminal lugs on the battery terminal lugs needed to be torqued to the correct values for the bolt size.   These also need to be re-torqued on the same schedule as the screw type cable connections.

On the Charge Controller (CC)  -  is it a KID,   or more likely,  is it a Classic  250 ?

Regarding the batteries,  and the settings on the CC;
What is your Absorb voltage  setting?
What is the Absorb time?
What is the EQ voltage setting?
How often are the batteries EQed?  For what period of time?

How often do you check Specific Gravities(SG) on each battery cell?
Do you use a Hydrometer?  What type (glass,   plastic,  floating colored balls, etc),   and brand?
How often do you need to add water to the batteries?  Approximately what quantity?

Are you using a single string of batteries?
Do you have a copy of the Surrette Battery Manual?

Did you do the installation of the system?   If not,   is the system installer available to try to help you?

Do you know the Low Voltage Disconnect (LVD)  setting in the Magnum Inverter?

It does sound like your inverter is doing an LVD,  either due to poor connection/s.  If you have ANY motor-starting loads,   even a refer or freezer,  this could be enough to cause an LVD if the batteries are Sulfated,  or/and there are poor connection/s in almost any part of the system.

I,  too,   am uncertain about your reference to "VOC"  of 70 or 80.   The Classic CC has a setting similar to this,  but would be quite surprised if a Magnum Tech person would have you change this.   Almost ALL of us who use Classics never,  ever even think to changing this setting in PV-based systems ...

Thanks for more answers on your system.  Good Luck,   Vic

[Westbranch]

I have read that having power that is NOT right on 60 Hz will cause your electric clocks to lose time.
Concur with retorqing ALL connections... and LVD is most likely cause of drop-off as Vic said.

[TrustinHim]

Here are some of the settings currently.
Don't laugh, obviously something is wrong here. 

BATTERY-
EQ 57.2
ABSORB 57.2
FLOAT 54.4

CHARGE TIME-
ABSORB 2:00
EQ 1:00

TCOMP-
-4.0 MV
EQ COMPED NO

LIMITS-
OUTPUT 55 A
INPUT 99 A
MIN 40 V
MAX 62.3 V

MODE-
AUX 1 OFF
AUX 2 WIZ BNG JR IN/0UT

I am sill looking at some of the other suggestions mentioned.

Thank you all-

[Vic]

Hi Trustin..,

Thanks for that info.   Will have a few comments,   but need to finish one thing before commenting.

Thanks again,   later,   Vic

[Vic]

OK  thanks Trustin..,

First,  I forgot to ask if this system is off-grid.   I assume that it is,   not that it will make a huge difference in your CC charge settings.

Here is the Link to the Surrette Battery Manual for your Flooded batteries:
http://rollsbattery.com/wpcontent/plugins/rollsbatteries/pdfs/Rolls_Battery_Manual.pdf

Your Absorb voltage needs to be about 60 Volts.
The Temperature Compensation value needs to be -5 mV/cell/C.

You should check the level of electrolyte in the batteries, before making any changes to CC settings.   The ideal height is about 0.25" (hope that you are in NA) below the bottom of vent tube that is below the cap on each cell.   Unless the level is low,   suggest adding only Distilled Water, during Absorb,   which will help mix the water into the electrolyte.

The EQ voltage needs to be about 62.4 to  63.6 volts.   An EQ should be done when the battery has just finished an Abosrb (when it is fully-charged).

Read the manual.   Most battery manufacturers seem to change charge voltage recommendations,   periodically.   Surrette may have changed the above values recently,   so check their Battery Manual.

Suggest raising the upper voltage Limit,   in the Limits menu  --  perhaps about 64 V.

An Absorb time of 2 hours may not be sufficient for batteries that have been discharged appreciably.   Your SG measurements will tell you how deeply discharged the batteries have been,   and will help dictate the best Absorb time setting for your typical use.

Also,   a one hour EQ may not be sufficient for batteries that have not had an EQ at a high enough voltage (perhaps ever).   If that is the case,   an EQ could require many,   many hours.   It is possible that  you might not have sufficient PV power available to reach the new,   higher EQ voltage.

A long EQ  will raise the battery temperature significantly.   EQs are best done manually,  under direct supervision.   This supervision  will allow monitoring the progress of raising SG on the lowest cells,   temperature,   etc.

Before starting an EQ,  make certain that there is sufficient electrolyte in the batteries to cover the plates,   and add Distilled Water before the EQ only if the level  is low  (the extra Gassing and temperature rise in EQ could cause electrolyte to overflow if the level is too high).

It is good that you are using the WbJr.   This will help you manage the system.

When you get a chance,   please tell us about your SG measurements  (values),   and approximately how much Distilled Water the batteries have been using,   in what period of time.

Thanks,   Vic

[FNG]

Do you get any red LED's on the Magnum remote when this happens? With the setpoints you gave if they have been that way for 3 years I suspect the Rolls are sulfated a lot but wouldnt imaging that causing the issue you are seeing unless the magnum is going into a low voltage shutdown