classic 150 cycling in follow mode

Started by australsolarier, July 13, 2018, 12:29:14 AM

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australsolarier

i have 3 classics in follow mode. the last one installed since last christmas. it is the third time this happens. basically 2 go into float mode. the third one steadily refuses and obstinately remains in absorb mode. it seems the midnite before the "obstinate"  midnite classic does not give on the float message. (a slave not the master with the whizbang jr)  rebooting solves the problem, temporarily for some time anyway.
the first and second time this happened i changed one of  the classic from legacy to solar mode. the next day the cycling. ok, not a problem, i am aware of that characteristic now. however, the third time nothing was changed whatsoever.
i hope that the programmed absorb time limit would kick in if this happens when i am not at home. i have not tried this out yet.
it will be interesting to see what happens when i hook up the fourth midnite classic.

Westbranch

do you see all 3 Classics on the readout?
all wires correctly positioned?
All settings exactly the same?


Factory reset been done on all 3?
What version of FW?  Update?

hope you find the issue..
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

ClassicCrazy

As Westbranch said - instead of power down reboot do a VMM reset on all three.
Someone I know when they have problems with   theirs that are  in follow me  over certain period of time and that seems to be the only way to clear the problem .
If you have all the settings saved with Local Status app it is easy to restore those without having to go through all the menus again.

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

boB


To test the loop, you can go to TWEAKS and force a BULK or FLOAT and check to see if the others follow within a minute or so.

If you set each Classic to LED Mode 1 then the middle blue classic LED will flash a short blip when it successfully reads the classic next to it.

When the blue LED blinks but stays on for a second, then that means it did not read but should read successfully the next blip.

So, each Classic should read its neighbor and change its mode after a few blips.  Can't remember how many at the moment but it might
be after 5 or 6 successful reads (short blips).

If you see a Classic that NEVER blips a short blue LED blink, then something may be wrong with the cable-end or maybe the Classic itself maybe.
More often than not it is the cable though.

boB
K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

australsolarier

bob
the problem is not that the follow me mode does not work, most of the time. it works. but every so often it does not. i am aware of the tutorial. intermittent faults are always the worst and most difficult to solve.

westbranch

those 3 midnite classics in follow mode have been following each other since christmas. now, i l hope the wires are "positioned correctly".
and no, the 3 midnites are not all programmed exactly the same. for example the voltage adjustments are different in each of them. float and absorb settings are slightly different. (that is because what the classic is set to and what it actually does are not exactly the same. (i have lifepo4 batteries and they are very touchy to one tenth of a volt difference) firmware 2126 all 3 midnite classics. two classics are in solar mode, the master in legacy. the master is in legacy because it goes to rest mode in sunny weather in solar mode. i would presume the follow me command would still cause all 3 classics to follow, what ever all the settings. possibly might cycle, but all 3 classics together. in my case one classic did not give on the float command.

i will set the slaves back to legacy mode. and go from there. (by the way, solar mode with multiple classics causes rapid fluctiations of power in float and absorption mode, which i do not like too much.)
to do a firmware reset: this will take some time and i want to be at home during the float.

i opened this post, to make people aware that sometimes the follow me mode does not work. personally i do not like that follow me thing. i would like it to be the master on the whiz bang jr that does all the deciding. like the general gives the command to attack and all soldiers attack. not a random soldier gives a command to attack or stops the attack because he is fiddling around his phone for example. just saying



dgd

The classic with the WBjr, make it the first then run the follow me wiring to the second then the third. Forget the loopback that connects from third back to first, ie remove cable.
Now set the setpoint voltages so that first Classis slways moves to Absorb then float before the other Classics. Make the second classic move before the third. Fiddle the setpoints voltages to do this.
As you have already discovered no two zclassics seem to agree on battery voltage so some faffing about is necessary
Thats how I have three Classics working on one site, using followme. Been going now for near 2 years.

The only effective alternative I have used is to have the Classics controlled by a computer that forces different states using modbus commands. An ideal use for an rPi or similar.
Dgd
Classic 250, 150,  20 140w, 6 250w PVs, 2Kw turbine, MN ac Clipper, Epanel/MNdc, Trace SW3024E (1997), Century 1050Ah 24V FLA (1999). Arduino power monitoring and web server.  Off grid since 4/2000
West Auckland, New Zealand

boB

Quote from: australsolarier on July 14, 2018, 09:35:21 PM
bob
the problem is not that the follow me mode does not work, most of the time. it works. but every so often it does not. i am aware of the tutorial. intermittent faults are always the worst and most difficult to solve.


Oh.  OK.  Yes, I can't stand intermittent problems especially when they happen only some times.  :)

Thinking on this...

boB
K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

WizBandit

CLASSIC - How to setup Classics in true Master/Slave Mode
http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/faq.php?id=112

We now ship silicon dielectric grease for the Jacks in the Classic.  We discovered on older Classics exposed to humid conditions the jack-pins would start to get surface rust on them causing the gold to flake off.  This makes a poor connection, and if the flakes fall and happen to lay across the pins this also causes issues.  If you have this condition, which can been seen with a bright light looking into the jack, you may need to power the Classic totally OFF and carefully use a small like jewelers screwdriver to burnish (lightly scrape) the pins.  Then apply a coat of silicon grease to keep them clean.

australsolarier

whiz bandid and dgd,
thanks for your input. in my case it would stop the cycling. however one of the classics would remain in bulk/absorption mode.(until timed out)  it seems one of the classics does not receive or send on the float signal. however yes the time out would then force the not relaying signal classic to go to float eventually, at least i hope it would, i have not tested that.
my power room is air conditioned. so it would have a very low humidity. (as it is winter here at the moment the aircon is turned off, minimum is 16, max can be 26C. and humidity very low, 48% at the moment)  not saying there is not a gold flaking problem. but after rebooting the float signal gets sent around the loop again.
also that it happened the day after i changed one of the slaves from legacy to solar mode.  the next day the same syptom (different days for each slave) seems to indicate there might be a software glitch somewhere.
incidentally two classics do not run well in solar mode, whilst two classics don't seem to have a problem with it. one classic starts to reduce power output to about 60% capacity in bulk after an hour or two. not overheating or anything. temp hardly ever hits 60C in this classic. 
greetings urs

australsolarier

just an update.
23.8.2018, one of the classics refuse to give on the float signal again. this time i just manually  "force floated" (not rebooting midnite) and have not detected the problem since. though i am not home at all the float resets. i will note the dates to see if there is a pattern.

boB

K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me