Kid charge controller suddenly dead

Started by cjessett, July 14, 2018, 03:33:15 PM

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cjessett

I am trying to troubleshoot why my Kid charge controller's display is suddenly blank.

There is nothing on the display nor any LEDs lit. The system was working fine for over a year until this occurred a few days ago.

Batteries are reading 10.2V
PVs are reading 74V

Are the batteries dead? Would that impact the charge controller? Doesn't the controller pull power from the PVs for it's display and circuit power?

Vic

Hi cjessett,   Welcome to the Fourm.

YES !!  Your batteries ARE  DEAD.

IIRC,   the KID  needs about 10.8 V,   or so for it to boot up.

I believe that the KID  will not operate only from PV input.

You could carefully try to connect the PVs directly to the battery.   But be certain to use a circuit breaker between the PV +  and the batteries.   In good sun,  this should be able to charge the batteries enough to get the KID to wake up.

If you happen to have an automotive type of charger that has the correct output voltage for your batteries,   and Grid or generator power, etc,  this can be a simpler to get the battery charging started,   and help get the KID booted.

FWIW,   Good Luck,   Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

cjessett

#2
Hi Vic,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I connected a fully charged battery reading 12.8V and am still not getting anything from the Kid.

Question: How does the Kid pull power from the battery and charge it at the same time? Maybe a dumb question, but can't current in a DC circuit only go one way?

To clarify my setup.
PV line is going into Kid. (Input terminals)
Batteries are going to output

Batteries:
3 of the same exact 12V batteries in parallel.
2/3 are dead (10.2V) and 1 is fully charged.
Entire battery system is reading 12.8V

Vic

Quote from: cjessett on July 14, 2018, 05:24:43 PM
Hi Vic,
   ...

I connected a fully charged battery reading 12.8V and am still not getting anything from the Kid.

Question: How does the Kid pull power from the battery and charge it at the same time? Maybe a dumb question, but can't current in a DC circuit only go one way?

To clarify my setup.
PV line is going into Kid. (Input terminals)
Batteries are going to output

Batteries:
3 of the same exact 12V batteries in parallel.
2/3 are dead (10.2V) and 1 is fully charged.
Entire battery system is reading 12.8V

Thanks cjessett for the added info.

OK  low battery voltage seems to be a bad guess on my part.

There are three fuses,  under plastic covers on the front of the KID controller.   One of these  protects the KID to battery connection.   Please check to see if this (or any other) fuse is blown.

More later,   Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

cjessett

Quote from: Vic on July 14, 2018, 05:48:40 PM
Quote from: cjessett on July 14, 2018, 05:24:43 PM
Hi Vic,
   ...

I connected a fully charged battery reading 12.8V and am still not getting anything from the Kid.

Question: How does the Kid pull power from the battery and charge it at the same time? Maybe a dumb question, but can't current in a DC circuit only go one way?

To clarify my setup.
PV line is going into Kid. (Input terminals)
Batteries are going to output

Batteries:
3 of the same exact 12V batteries in parallel.
2/3 are dead (10.2V) and 1 is fully charged.
Entire battery system is reading 12.8V

Thanks cjessett for the added info.

OK  low battery voltage seems to be a bad guess on my part.

There are three fuses,  under plastic covers on the front of the KID controller.   One of these  protects the KID to battery connection.   Please check to see if this (or any other) fuse is blown.

More later,   Vic

Both fuses (input and battery) are intact. There is no Load fuse as nothing is connected to the load terminals.

I also realized that these are 40amp fuses and it looks like the Kid calls for 30amp fuses.
This actually isn't my setup, it's my buddy's, so I'm not sure the reason for those 40amp fuses. Could've been negligence.

Vic

cjessett,

OK on the fuses.   For now,   those should be fine,   as long as there is an input and output breaker or fuse.   Normally fuses/breakers protect the connected cable,  not devices.

Wonder if this KID is located in Lightning country,   and if there have been any thunderstorms in the area,   recently.

You might want to check the battery voltage at the KID terminals,   or at least at the KID end of the fuse/breaker that connects to the KID battery terminals.

Others will probably have some good ideas about that to check.

Gotta go for now,   Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

cjessett

Some back story on when it died.

A freezer was the bulk of the load and buddy woke up in the morning to find the charge controller dead and the load off. Unplugged freezer, flipped breaker switch off/on ,small radio turned back on. Charge controller never turned back on.

The freezer is rated at 0.95 amps.

cjessett

Quote from: Vic on July 14, 2018, 06:32:36 PM
cjessett,

OK on the fuses.   For now,   those should be fine,   as long as there is an input and output breaker or fuse.   Normally fuses/breakers protect the connected cable,  not devices.

Wonder if this KID is located in Lightning country,   and if there have been any thunderstorms in the area,   recently.

You might want to check the battery voltage at the KID terminals,   or at least at the KID end of the fuse/breaker that connects to the KID battery terminals.

Others will probably have some good ideas about that to check.

Gotta go for now,   Vic

No storms in the area when this occurred.

Kid battery terminal reads 12.6V

Westbranch

hi cjessett... a few  Q's to clarify in my mind...

PV connected and reading 70+V   ...  is this before  or after removing 10V batteries from KID?....After connecting the 12V+ battery?

OK 12+V battery connected and Kid does not respond/ boot up.  Have you done a factory RESET?
I hope you have a copy of the manual... if not go to the main MidNite page and you will find a link to the manual.

More Q's  later.
KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

ClassicCrazy

Without knowing the history of this system, the way the batteries are wired , how far the batteries are drawn down and how often they get a full recharge, if the batteries got watered added regulary and equalized , etc it is tough to know what happened.

From what is described it almost sounds like the two bad batteries may have been on a slow long decline until they suddenly went down far enough to turn off the Kid.  The loads since they are wired directly to the battery may be able to run at a voltage much lower than the Kid.  The radio went back on because it was able to run at a lower voltage input.

If parallel batteries are not wired properly they will not share the load , or the charge the same. So cells in some of the batteries can go low and slowly go lower and lower and then the battery is no good.

Also all the connections on all the Kid terminals and  batteries, breakers, any terminal ends would need to be carefully examined to make sure there is no corrosion and that all connections are clean and tight .

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

FNG

If you have 11 volts or more at the battery terminals and the fuse is verified good the kid is broken for some reason. I would try swapping the 2 fuses and see if it's still dead.

The 40 amp fuse is proper as UL asked for breakers inline and they want the breaker to blow before the fuse. Also, a 30 amp fuse blows faster than a 30 amp breaker.


cjessett

Thanks for the responses, all.

I checked out the terminals a little closer and found that the plastic cover of the battery side of the charger > battery terminal was melted and stuck on the wire. I cleaned off the melted broken plastic and refixed the wire to the terminal and the Kid came back on.

Not sure what caused the plastic bit of the terminal to melt but it seems like that disrupted the connection.

If anyone has seen something like this before or has any insight it'd be much appreciated.

Thanks

Westbranch

KID FW1811 560W >C&D 24V 900Ah AGM
CL150 29032 FW V.2126-NW2097-GP2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3Px4s 140W > 24V 900Ah AGM,
2 Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr, NetGr DS104Hub
Cotek ST1500 Inv  want a 24V  ROSIE Inverter
OmniCharge3024  Eu1/2/3000iGens
West Chilcotin 1680+W to come

FNG

If the terminal has been hot it could be tarnished. You will want to keep a close eye on this and make sure it doesnt continue to get hot

ClassicCrazy

It could have been a loose connection - which makes high resistance , which in turn gets very hot .
It is not a bad thing to occasionally check all connections to make sure they are still tight since copper can compress and move over time. Especially after the first installation.

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable