Author Topic: Kid charge controller suddenly dead  (Read 1178 times)

Nomad1

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2019, 05:35:29 AM »
Just came back from winter trip and found my KID completely dead. No heating issues, no visible damage, no load, almost no PV power during winter. Weird.
I'll post after fuse check and voltage measuring.
Programmer

tecnodave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Learn something new every day
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2019, 11:28:32 AM »
Cjessit,

I have seen this issue before where the fuse is not tight in the fuse holder. It generates heat and makes the condition worse until it melts the fuse and or covers.

There is a fix.....first remove battery and p.v. input , be sure that there is no power to the kid. Use a small pair of needle nose pliers and very carefully gently squeeze the fuse holder socket  blades a bit tighter so the fuse is a snug fit in the holder.....don't squeeze too tight...a bit at a time...get a good friction fit here.

I have not seen this issue in aKid controller but on other electrical gear that I service. It's hot hard at all to do this.

David
#1 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24volt L-16 Rolls-Surette S-530, MS4024 & Cotek ,  C-40 dirv.cont. for hot water
#2 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24 volt L-16 Interstate,Brutus Inv.
#3 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 4/6 P
#4 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 2S 2/3 P

mike90045

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
    • The Ranch (via facebook re-direct)
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2019, 07:59:07 PM »
Ever since I've worked with large industrial fuses and watched bad contacts destroy whole panel boxes, I've always used copper or silver conductive grease on the friction fit terminals.  Prevents oxide buildup and moisture issues.
Google "  silver electrical contact grease  "   

https://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html
https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/greases-and-lubricants/conductive-greases/silver-conductive-grease-8463
https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=420
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

tecnodave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Learn something new every day
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2019, 10:46:31 PM »
I have been using Ideal industries No-Alox for many years now. It's an anti oxidant marketed  for joining aluminum wire to copper wire. It works wery well. I even use it on my battery terminals! It's not rated for that but I have no corrosive beard on my terminals and cables. It works as a very good lubricant for set screws on electrical terminals and they never corrode freezing the set screw in place. When changing out main panels all the cable connections larger than 10 ga. wire get no-alox , breakers and all, including the breaker stabs that join to the buss on plug in breakers such as the Square D Homeline breakers, PG&E meters and all. Never had a problem with that product. Highly recommended.....

David
#1 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24volt L-16 Rolls-Surette S-530, MS4024 & Cotek ,  C-40 dirv.cont. for hot water
#2 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24 volt L-16 Interstate,Brutus Inv.
#3 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 4/6 P
#4 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 2S 2/3 P

Nomad1

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2019, 04:48:35 AM »
So I checked and re-checked twice all wirings and fuses until I found that there is 0 power on battery input terminal. Further investigation showed that rock solid 63A breaker switched off. That could mean a short circuit that I found no signs of. Or that was just an accidental breaker activation because of bad weather, specific lunar phase, aliens, etc. False alarm I name it.
Programmer

Nomad1

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2019, 07:33:13 AM »
This morning KID turned off once more.
I went to see it and sound the room filled with unpleasant oily smell. DC breaker was off. Under the KID there was a puddle with some oily substance, I also see a few drops on the device casing as well. I haven't tried to turn it on 'cause I find it pretty much dangerous to use the device that leaked something.
All other devices including inverter and WBJR are working normally, battery bank have 27.2V, PV is 110V (open circuit).

I think this is the end of my KID. It seems some coil or transformer got short circuit and heated until it melted something. I won't operate the device that can cause pollution or heating damage to my house.
Programmer

Nomad1

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2019, 08:54:09 AM »
One of capacitors went out. Another is having significant bump. Everything inside the case is in this oily substance, but I'm not sure if it's electrolyte or something else.

Programmer

Vic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2019, 11:24:50 AM »
Hi Nomad1,

One question;   Where is the negative lead from the PVs connected?
The KID needs the PV Negative to be connected directly to the PV negative terminal in the KID,   and not connected directly to the battery negative bus bar.

The KID measures current in the PV negative lead,   and cannot operate properly if the PV negative is not connected to this terminal.

Please confirm this connection.

Just a thought.    FWIW, 
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

Nomad1

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2019, 11:39:00 AM »
Hi Vic,
Both PV wires were connected to 20A breaker and then directly to KID. It worked perfectly for summer 2018 till the late October.
Also the resistance between PV lines and battery was checked several times as it was clearly stated in the manual to avoid this connection.
Programmer

tecnodave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
  • Learn something new every day
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2019, 12:39:01 PM »
Nomad1,

It's time to turn in a trouble ticket with MidNite to get an RMA for return to have the techs at MidNite fix this.
The ruptured capacitor is part of the MPPT front end and one of the key components along with that big coil next to it. Hopefully replacing the cap will fix the problem.
This is exactly how capacitors fail. The mess can be cleaned up with rubbing alcohol. It probably is not toxic but I can't say that for sure.
I don't see other damage done in there and from the looks of it it is repairable. Even if you are out of warranty MidNite goes the extra step to keep their customers happy.

david

David
#1 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24volt L-16 Rolls-Surette S-530, MS4024 & Cotek ,  C-40 dirv.cont. for hot water
#2 Classic 150 12 x Sharp NE-170, 2S6P, 24 volt L-16 Interstate,Brutus Inv.
#3 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 4/6 P
#4 Kid/WBjr 4/6 Sanyo 200 watt multilayer 2S 2/3 P

Vic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2019, 03:14:33 PM »
Hi Vic,
Both PV wires were connected to 20A breaker and then directly to KID. It worked perfectly for summer 2018 till the late October.
Also the resistance between PV lines and battery was checked several times as it was clearly stated in the manual to avoid this connection.

Hi Nomad,

Just wanted to toss out this bad guess  --  forgot that this system had been a system that was working fine.

Yes,  this wiring detail is clearly called-out in the manual,   and perhaps even with an info sheet that ships with the KID.   But,   in some retrofit situations,  the removed CC may have had the PV negative connected to the main negative bus bar,   and,   this "subtlety"  can get missed   ...   that was all

Back to regular programming.    Vic
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

Nomad1

  • Newby
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2019, 05:18:37 AM »
Finally my KID is back!
Service center in Spain replaced the motherboard but gave me zero details on it. They also tried to sell me surge protector that could mean they suspect a lightning strike or something alike.
Device is working normally, generating up to 500W per hour. Also there is 2-line AUX connector instead of my old 3-line connector, so I was only able to connect WBJR and not my AUX relay. Worst thing that I can't remember my old voltage settings, end amps, load on/off settings, etc. Of course it's just a matter of time and some effort to restore them to optimal values.

P.S. On the way back from Spain my parcel faced two Easters at once - Catholic and Orthodox - among with huge span of May holidays resulting in 30+ days delivery while normally it could take a week or two.
Programmer

bee88man

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 48
Re: Kid charge controller suddenly dead
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2019, 09:39:00 AM »
Adding that Surge would be good protection, Midnite makes some great surge protectors...