Classic Behavior When Using EA

[Vic]

While attempting to fine-tune the EA value for:

2ea Classic 150s in FollowMe
with WbJr attached to master
Each Classic in Solar Mode
FW on each Cl 2126,  with matching MNGP FW (no speech)
These Classics  and the present configuration were installed in 2011,   and has undergone no changes (other than batteries ageing),

Classic  appears to end Absorb before EA values has been met (often,  by a wide margin,   and with no apparent qualifying delay time).

The EA setting appeared to be a bit too high.   Lowered the EA value on the Master Classic,   and Forced Bulk.   Tried to change the EA value near the end of the Force Bulk Absorb stage,   but did not get the new yet-lower value entered before that first Force Bulk (FB)  ended.

Changed EA setting to a lower value,  yet.   FBed   but noticed that this Absorb stage ended with the WB current significantly higher than the set value.

FBed again,   and  with an EA  setting of 17.5 A,   the Absorb ended at about 32 A  --  the  WB current was falling fairly rapidly,   but,  there is NO way that the 17.5A setting was met for 90-ish seconds,   or even one second.

Setting EA to 0.0 A appears to work OK,   but did not wait  for the full Absorb timer to time-out ...

SO,   it is possible for rapidly diminishing EA values,   to somehow trigger EA  as having been met,  without  any delay,   and without EA having actually been met  ...    OR ??

No computer at this remote site,  not on MyMidnite.

What   IS    the proper way to use FB  when trying to use EA to end  Absorb ??   Most of the Charger settings in the MNGP are active upon entry (and without using Enter).

Thanks,   Vic

[boB]

Vic, 

Could it be that the Absorb timer is timing out before the EA threshold ?

Either Classic's Absorb timer can do this of course.

boB

[Vic]

Hi boB,   Thanks,

While it was not mentioned in the first Post,   the Absorb timer setting was 2:30.  The first Absorb today,  required about two hours.

The next Absorb --  the first Forced Bulk  lasted about 8 minutes,   and successive FBs  needed a bit less time than that.

The FB appeared to reload the Absorb timer in the Master Classic.   So expected that the Absorb would take 2:30:00,   or  when the EA was met for 90 seconds (is that it?) the Absorb would end.

It appears that Classic 2 (the slave),   did not have a change to Absorb time that had been made in the Master Classic,   as its max Absorb time shown.

Is the above,   defective reasoning  --   would not the maximum Absorb time be that set under Absorb Time in the Master for the FB?

Thanks,   73,   Vic

[Vic]

It is a new day,    with several additional observations;

Brought a Laptop to this remote site today.   But,  just checked the Log data via the MNGP.   With an EA setting of 26A  and Absorb time setting of two hours,  thirty minutes,  it appeared in the Log,  that the Master Classic  had NO Absorb time  --  probably was that the Tabs  was shorter than the Log data resolution.

Forced Bulk (FB),   went to the vehicle to get the laptop charger  (about 2 minutes),   and the Classic had gone from Absorb to Float  in those two minutes.

The only semi-unusual thing is that the Slave Classic  has lost the correct year in its MNGP clock  --  thinks that is 2012.   Reset that and then set EA to 0.0,   and began a new FB stage.   This is proceeding,   as if there had been no real Absorb time,  today.

Twenty minutes into Absorb,  Wb current is about 37 A.

Am thinking of changing to the other Classic as the Master,   and moving the Wb purple wire to its Aux 2,   as an experiment.

There have been no layout or electrical changes to this system is some years.
The Wb cable was extended about 18",   but the entire run into the conduit box containing the WbJr is in the Control cable EMT conduit.   The only other cables in this conduit are the two Classic BTS cables.   Should not be a very noisy environment.

...   Wonder what has changed and what is up with this.
We have ALWAYS used Wb EA  on this system,  since it first became available.

Thanks for thoughts,   Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

Curious Vic if you did VMM reset on all the Classics yet ?  If not when you get all the other things you want to try and document done - try the hard resets and see if they work okay after that.

Larry

[Vic]

Curious Vic if you did VMM reset on all the Classics yet ?  If not when you get all the other things you want to try and document done - try the hard resets and see if they work okay after that.
Larry

Hi Larry,   not yet,   but will consider it,  perhaps will delay that until tomorrow.  Thanks for that thought.

In cursory tests,  it does appear that this end to Absorb well before the EA value is reached,  does depend on the magnitude of the EA setting  --  tried EA values of:
1, 3, 5, 8, and 8.1.   In a reasonable amount of time for each of those choices  Absorb was not terminate.   BUT,  EA choices of 9,  13,   and 8.9  did cause early ending of Absorb.

May well just set a reasonable Tabs for tomorrow's charge,  with NO EA setting.   An EA setting of 0.0  does seem to allow Tabs to equal the value set in Absorb time in the MNGP Charge menu.

Right now,  using the LA, it appears that  any function that would allow one to change values in the Master Classic or the Slave (as in Config > Basic, etc),  are  dimmed out,  and do not allow any changes from the LA to be made.   Will try rebooting the Router.

More later,   Thanks for the VMM idea.   73   Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

Just a thought that if some kind of errors accumulate over time in the system the only way to get them cleared out and get everything working fresh and how it should would be the VMM. Seems like everything with microprocessor needs to be flushed out over time - at least I often restart computers, phones, Raspberry Pi, routers, etc to get them back from errors caused by who knows what !

Larry

[boB]

I think that FB = Force Bulk but what does "Tabs" mean ?

Also, when you Force Bulk, Do you watch the slave Classic go to Absorb and/or Bulk MPPT again ?

When you do that, check the opposite Classic's Absorb timer value when it goes to Absorb to make sure it
isn't sitting at some low timer value.   I think that's in the TIMERS  --  VIEW screen.

boB

[Vic]

I think that FB = Force Bulk but what does "Tabs" mean ?

Also, when you Force Bulk, Do you watch the slave Classic go to Absorb and/or Bulk MPPT again ?

When you do that, check the opposite Classic's Absorb timer value when it goes to Absorb to make sure it
isn't sitting at some low timer value.   I think that's in the TIMERS  --  VIEW screen.
boB

Hi boB,

Yes,   FB = Force Bulk (had defined that previously).  Sorry about Tabs  --  usually do define abbreviations at the first use,   unless they are quite common,   as with Vabs.   Meant to say,  'Time,  absorb' .

Yes  both Classics  DO  go into Bulk upon Forcing Bulk,   and  since  the Master Classic  had  "felt"  that EA had been met,  and went to Float,   the correct Absorb time had been reloaded into the count-down timer.

The early Absorb termination,   prior to either the Wb current (EA),  or the Absorb timer,  timing-out.

Did a simple Reboot (power-off,   wait,  repower) of each Classic,   but  that did not change this early Abs end.

Followed that by Classic Crazy Larry's suggestion of doing the official  VMM/setting reload.

We are now in the Absorb stage following that VMM   ...   so far,  so good,  will update later on this result.

Thanks boB and Larry,    73   Vic

[Vic]

As suggested by Classic Crazy,   Larry,   performed VMMs on each Classic,   and reloaded custom settings.

Just completed  an Absorb stage, using EA,   and   the Classics behaved as they should.

At least for now,   the strange behavior of  the Master Classic not correctly using the set EA value  is FIXED.

THANK YOU Classic Crazy Larry for that suggestion.   It had been about two years since  a VMM was done on these  Classics,   and obviously,   it was needed.   There were no obvious settings that had changed from their original values,   but  something  had gotten a bit "loose".

Had wondered,   if my quickly  going twix the Charge > Advanced menu,  and the Wb Status menu,   with the set EA value had been reached,   might have exposes some possible Race condition  (like changing EA,   at the exact instant that the Classic was trying to go to Float,   or similar).

Anyway,   in summary,   we are back to normal,   except for the LocalApp  will not allow any set values to be changed via Config > Basic,  Advanced,   or Tech selections.   Each of those selections are  Whited-Out,   and do not function.

Will try reloading the LA  ...   kind of like the  Classics are Write-Protected when trying to make changes via the LA ...

Anyway   Thanks  Classic Crazy,   and boB for the hand-holding.

73,     Vic

[WizBandit]

Maybe this will help?

http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/faq.php?id=117
CLASSIC - ENDAMPS - Setup for more than one Classic

http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/faq.php?id=113
CLASSIC - ENDAMPS - How do I figure what ENDAMPS should be?

[WizBandit]

Anyway,   in summary,   we are back to normal,   except for the LocalApp  will not allow any set values to be changed via Config > Basic,  Advanced,   or Tech selections.   Each of those selections are  Whited-Out,   and do not function.

Serial number needs to be entered in the Local App as the UNLOCK CODE.
Hardware defeat can be used by installing the JUMPER above the blue terminal block inside the Classic marked as LOC or LOK.
This jumper removes the need to enter the serial number in the LA.

[Vic]

Thanks WizBandit,

It has been TOO long since the LA had been configured,   forgot all about that,   but,  we did not intentionally remove those S/N   ...

Will return those numbers in the LA.

Thanks again,   Vic