Well after kicking the ‘what battery’ ball around for a year I ordered...

[alyaz]

wait for it...

6 - 4KS21 Rolls FLA batteries.

Tough decision and seems like whatever you choose still has more cons than pros.  Got about 12 years out of our last FLA batteries so thought this would be the safest way to go. 

I really wanted and tried to get a decent deal on some Crown 2v batteries, but up here in Canada they want your first born too.  I would have gladly done that, but the surgeon said it wasn’t possible.  Up here, Crowns are way way way more money than the Rolls/Surrettes.  I wanted to like the tubular Davidsons, but they have a soft case that requires wooden boxes, which made me think they were too hokey.  The other tubulars sold by the local dude, come from Europe, and don’t seem to have any customer help lines, etc.  Looked at just about everything else, but kept coming back to the Rolls.  Partly because they are made in Canada and ‘seemed' to have very good customer assistance for the batteries.

Anyway, ordered them on August 7’th.  I have no idea where they are, other than the dealer saying they have been shipped.  Rolls won’t tell me if they have been shipped or when they were shipped or even if they were made.  Rolls says they have to protect their dealer confidentiality.

Gawd, what a bunch of bs.  Sometimes living off grid, with crappy logistics, and companies / dealers that really don’t care other than getting the $$$ in their jeans sucks. 

But it could be worse... apparently.  Just ‘Roll’ with it, right?

:-)

[ClassicCrazy]

that is some lousy customer service !
Hope they show up soon.
Yeah I would want them  not older than 6 months from date of manufacture

Larry

[Westbranch]

Does Rolls ship them 'wet' or 'dry'?

[Vic]

Does Rolls ship them 'wet' or 'dry'?

My experience with  Surrettes,   is,   that they are shipped Wet,  unless otherwise requested.

Have had very good experience with Surrette batteries,   and all of their Customer Support.

If the decision needed to be made today for the off-grid battery replacement used here,     guess that it would be  Surrette FLAs.  Li   is looking interesting ...

Good Luck Al.   All indications are that Surrette usually builds Flooded batteries to order.    Vic

[alyaz]

Yes they are shipped wet.  I am sure they are on their way... Even though I am way more patient now than before moving off grid (cause things just move slower in this world) I do wish I knew where they were in order to organize their last (and expensive) leg of the journey.  :-)

[WillEert]

I have had nothing but good luck with Surrette and I think you made a good choice in a FLA battery manufacturer. If you want to know where your batteries are consider asking the person you bought them from. They should be able to tell you or find out.

Will

[alyaz]

Hi Will

Yes I have asked them, and all they get back to me with, after apparently making some calls, is ‘they have been shipped.’  I haven’t pushed them yet, but after this week, if they don’t show up, I will become a PITA and will contact Rolls directly too.  :-) 

[alyaz]

Just doing some reading here...

In order to compute the new set points for the new batteries (hopefully soon to arrive), I require the Magnum Remote and the Midnite charge controller ‘nominal charge currents.’

For the Magnum MS4024PAE I currently have the parameter set at 100% .  I believe the charger puts out 105 a.  So the formula they provided is;
C20 (1104) / 105 x.42 = 4.4 hrs in absorb / for generator.

For the 2 Midnite / 1 Apollo controllers  what nominal charge current do you use to plug into the formula    Should I assume about 70 a and derate it a bit as there are three controllers in use?


Hope that makes sense...

[ClassicCrazy]

I think from what it says you have for solar and the amount of batteries you have you do not need to current limit the charge from your PV.  It will give all available power to your battery in Bulk and when the voltage climbs to the Absorb voltage then the Classic will taper off the current to keep the voltage constant  until you get to either the Absorb Time of ending amps ( if you have whizbang and have ending amps set ) . I am sure Rolls has all the recommended setpoints for your Classic. If you want to set up ending amps there is a tutorial on how to do it in Knowledge Base - this topic " Frequently Asked Questions
All Categories » CLASSIC CHARGE CONTROLLER - Features and Programming
CLASSIC - ENDAMPS - How do I figure what ENDAMPS should be? "
http://www.midnitehelp.com/

Larry

[alyaz]

Thanks Larry.

How do I know or calculate what ‘power’ in amps the three controllers can produce under optimum conditions?  That’s the number I need in order to figure out the absorb time needed when charging by solar.

[ClassicCrazy]

I think you could do one of two things .
One would be set them all to the same setpoints and they should all do similar regulating .
Or the other option would be to set two of the controllers with lower Absorb setpoint than your Classic array - and then those other two will drop out first and the Classic will finish up the charging . If you use more power then the voltage would drop and and the other two controllers should then contribute the power you need.
I have no experience with the other controller types. I guess you will just have to experiment some to find what works best. I think I would set the two other controllers one volt lower and one half volt lower than the Classic and watch and see how they behave. 

You could just watch them and see how much amps each contributes on a sunny day and the you will know what to expect from them. They may  put out more power if it gets colder out in winter. Seems like you could set them all for the same absorb time . 

Larry

[alyaz]

Copy thanks.  Yes I will try to get a reading on a cold sunny day.  I know those formulas for determining the absorb times are just ball park numbers.  I will have to be way more disciplined with the hydrometer readings this time round...  :-)

[Vic]

Just doing some reading here...

In order to compute the new set points for the new batteries (hopefully soon to arrive), I require the Magnum Remote and the Midnite charge controller ‘nominal charge currents.’

For the Magnum MS4024PAE I currently have the parameter set at 100% .  I believe the charger puts out 105 a.  So the formula they provided is;
C20 (1104) / 105 x.42 = 4.4 hrs in absorb / for generator.

For the 2 Midnite / 1 Apollo controllers  what nominal charge current do you use to plug into the formula    Should I assume about 70 a and derate it a bit as there are three controllers in use?

Hope that makes sense...

Hi Al,

These formulas originate from the use of on-Grid chargers.   The Magnum,  running from a genset  probably  could use the same formula.

But,   of course,   it is generally poor use of fuel  to do a complete charge using a genset,   unless it is absolutely necessary.   Often,   even in Winter,  one can run the genset  into the Absorb stage,   and try to let the PVs finish the charge.  Realize that at your location this may not work in the deep,   dark depths of Winter.   Also Inverter gensets are more efficient than conventional ones,  during Absorb,   and so on.

If you are looking at the similar Absorb time formula from Surrette,   it might not do a great job of estimating the Absorb time setting for  PV-charged batteries.

The available charge current from PV  varies considerably,   often from one day to the next.  The required Absorb time to fully-charge your Flooded batteries varies depending upon the Depth Of Discharge that the batteries experienced in the previous discharge.  This,   too,   can vary considerably,   from day-to-day (at least for most of our off-grid systems).

Using WB End Amps can help,   but  it would be ideal,  if all of the Solar chargers were Classics,   so Follow Me  could  control ALL  PV chargers.

Just some opinions,   good luck with that new battery bank,   Vic

[alyaz]

Thanks Vic.

You got me thinking... I do have a Midnite Classic 150 on the shelf (for a backup) and a WB that came with that Classic that I never installed.  So I could re and re the Apollo controller for the Classic and have three Classics at work.  However, with each Classic running a separate array (each is a different orientation, they could not be in ‘follow me’ mode anyway right?  And if that is the case then I would need three WB’s (one for each Classic)?  Or does One WB allow for separate runs to each Classic?  Thanks.

Al

[Vic]

Hi Al,

In Follow Me,  there is a Master Classic,   with THE WbJr/Shunt.   Each of the other CCs have their battery and PV negatives on the non-battery side of the Shunt.   This allows the Master Classic to monitor  all of the current coming from and going to the battery.

The battery  accumulates charge current (less any discharges during charging).   Irrespective of the PV array azimuths,   when the battery charging current,   as measured by the Master Classic remains below the set EA (with the CCs in Absorb) for about 30 - 60 seconds,   all CCs go to Float.

There is a way for the Classics to Limit the total charge current into the battery,   and that (at this stage)  would require a Shunt and WbJr  for each Classic that you wish to Limit the current  --  depending on things,   often not every Classic in this Limiting scheme would need a Shunt/Wb,   only those that would have the ability of increasing the maximum charge current capability of the battery (IMO).

More opinions,   hope that your new batteries arrive soon,   and in great shape,  Vic