Author Topic: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?  (Read 3234 times)

ClassicCrazy

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2019, 01:01:12 PM »
Could be you get what you pay for .
My suggestion with lithiums would be to experiment with a small pack and cheap bms to truly understand how they work and the ins and outs.   You could make a pack out of used cells from recycled laptop battery packs or just buy some new 18650's .  The radio controlled hobby sites sell small lithium packs too already put together but they rely on built in balance of external chargers .
Recommended book
https://www.amazon.com/DIY-Lithium-Batteries-Build-Battery/dp/0989906701
and this youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRMrqzsrPIWvY3PINkLKs-Q

Larry
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie

mahendra

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2019, 08:08:20 PM »
Calb is indeed the choice but there are other good brands check the guys at NAWS forum.

A BMS has it's advantages and disadvantages.
However, if you are thinking of  getting one don't go cheap .
I have said it before if there would ever be a WBsr. Then that would be the answer .
Classics and kids already have all the features for lithium but it needs some hardware addition to corrolate with lithium for lvd hvd and soc
1.5kw on Midnite classic 150(whizbang jr.) networked 0.660kw on classic lite 200 ,180ah CALB Lifepo4 48v battery bank,123SmartBMS bms(top balanced) Outback vfx3648

mahendra

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2019, 08:13:14 PM »
Orion BMS seems to be the choice for brands like iron  edison and based on reviews they are good but you have to purchase a tool to verify connection of the battery to the BMS.This cost either the same or at least half the price of the BMS.
1.5kw on Midnite classic 150(whizbang jr.) networked 0.660kw on classic lite 200 ,180ah CALB Lifepo4 48v battery bank,123SmartBMS bms(top balanced) Outback vfx3648

bevans

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2019, 03:35:02 PM »
Anyone else have experience with the Orion BMS that mahendra mentions?

They are pricey, but seems like a sophisticated system with nice display and wifi monitoring add-ons. I'm still in the decision making process of proceeding without a BMS (carefully/conservatively programming the Classics to load/float and end-amps + monitoring w/ WBjr +BMK) vs. diving into the BMS realm. This is my first rodeo, so please share your considerations... mine is an off-grid diy application with Chevy Volt batteries.

bevans
5200w PV array, 16 SunPower 327s
Magnum Energy ms4448PAE inverter/power center
Magnum BMK
Dual Midnite Solar Classic 150s
Midnite WhizBang Jr & shunt
16 kwh Chevy Volt EV lithium ion

Matrix

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2019, 06:51:36 PM »
Anyone else have experience with the Orion BMS that mahendra mentions?

They are pricey, but seems like a sophisticated system with nice display and wifi monitoring add-ons. I'm still in the decision making process of proceeding without a BMS (carefully/conservatively programming the Classics to load/float and end-amps + monitoring w/ WBjr +BMK) vs. diving into the BMS realm. This is my first rodeo, so please share your considerations... mine is an off-grid diy application with Chevy Volt batteries.

bevans
This kinda seems like a read worth reading.
https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/

And here MIGHT be some other options for bms systems:
https://www.batteryspace.com/bms-master-module-for-lifepo4-battery-pack.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQjwh6XmBRDRARIsAKNInDG-s5rXpR9v135ewGs6Yrol1mux9UCDe3Nkcnfr0FjQPlwp-UpuDM8aAmfKEALw_wcB

https://www.ev-power.eu/_d4493.html
Grid-Assist Off-Grid
REC TwinPeak 2 285W 3S-3P 2565w-STC 1926w-NMOT Array / Classic 150 / Conext SW 4024 Inverter
Trojan L16H-AC 435Ah bank 4S  with 7' of 4/0 cable
24 volt system /  Need 3200Whs Daily
My System Install

bevans

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2019, 08:47:33 PM »
Thank you, Matrix.

I like the tone of the Marine article. I'll look these over... nice build, btw.

In the meantime, please keep the lithium suggestions, perspectives and resources coming. I'm in the bulking phase of research.

bevans
5200w PV array, 16 SunPower 327s
Magnum Energy ms4448PAE inverter/power center
Magnum BMK
Dual Midnite Solar Classic 150s
Midnite WhizBang Jr & shunt
16 kwh Chevy Volt EV lithium ion

mahendra

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2019, 09:13:52 PM »
BMS offers individual cell monitoring which is a good thing
1.5kw on Midnite classic 150(whizbang jr.) networked 0.660kw on classic lite 200 ,180ah CALB Lifepo4 48v battery bank,123SmartBMS bms(top balanced) Outback vfx3648

davidshelton

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2019, 03:10:41 PM »
Well, I decided to hold off on Lithium for a bit as my AGMs were still going strong but now I want to use them for small single module plus battery systems for a local community. So Lithium is back on the radar!
Seems like single cell balancers like the ones RossW uses should keep all the cells in harmony and setting inverter LBCO and charge set points diligently should be the K.I.S.S. approach to go with. That and monitoring with OpticsRE should be more than enough to ensure no under/over voltage of any cells, no? 
I'm looking at the Fortune 100Ah cells which claim better lifecycle than the CALB cells.
Thoughts?
Can anyone recommend a source of these cells closer to Florida than Utah?
Installer in Central America based out of Nicaragua
FX3048T w/ Epanel and Classic 200SL w/Whizzbang jr, AXS port, 100Ah Outback 106NC,  4 x Topoint 190W 24V 72 cell modules. Grid tied currently.

Steve_S

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2019, 11:35:01 AM »
I don't know if it entered into your thinking but EV Batteries from Volts, Bolts, Nissans etc are now in the recycle chain and many are being upcycled for RE Storage.  As such BMS solutions and harnesses have been appearing.  I have a healthy FLA bank at this time but always thinking ahead and watching things unfold and if I'm still kickin when I have to change my batteries, upcycled EV batteries it will be, unless something better & cheaper pops up in the meantime ;-) .

Some links which may be of interest.
http://www.rec-bms.com/index.html   <BMS systems +

https://www.youtube.com/user/devildestiny555/videos
This fellow recycles, upcycles EV Batteries & more - some Great Stuff and a wealth of info.

Classic-200, Samlex EVO-4024 Inverter/Charger, 2080W of Canadian Solar CS-260P in 2 strings of 4,  8x Rolls Surette S-550 24V/856Ah battery bank.
System Detail: http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=4643.0

mike90045

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2019, 10:35:55 AM »
I don't know if it entered into your thinking but EV Batteries from Volts, Bolts, Nissans etc are now in the recycle chain and many are being upcycled for RE Storage. ..........

And this is where the poop hits the blower.
 The automotive batteries getting "up-cycled" likely have 2% of the cells going bad, pulling the rest of the pack down.  They either have to be broken up and the used cells tested and re-binned according to capacity, or they are just selling sub groups that seem to pass whatever test "they" do.
 So your upcycled cells are heavily used and being placed into lighter duty usage.  If well binned, you might get a couple 2 or 3 more years of gentle use, but I would not count on them being reliable enough to run my off-grid house, or worth my maintenance bother and accelerated replacement intervals.



http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

Steve_S

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2019, 03:40:33 PM »
There are DIY possibilities and like anything else, it can be done properly or not.  There are some businesses doing such which include thorough testing and certifying them as well.   In Europe, there is already a respectable marketplace with upcycled EV batteries being used and sold for that purpose, as well as being repurposed into EV charging stations.  Renault is doing this and even Tesla is doing so, to only mention two obvious ones.

We have a small company in this area refurbing EV batteries, complete with cell testing and verifications.  You also get the correct harnesses and BMS which are reasonably priced and I have not heard a complaint since they been in business (5 yrs) and shipping across Canada.  They're also swamped with orders and can't keep up with supply constraints being a problem.  The failure rates of cells they've come to realize is actually quite low but there are some problems with early generation cells from Prius and one other I can't think of right now.
Classic-200, Samlex EVO-4024 Inverter/Charger, 2080W of Canadian Solar CS-260P in 2 strings of 4,  8x Rolls Surette S-550 24V/856Ah battery bank.
System Detail: http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=4643.0

davidshelton

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Re: Best DIY 48V Lithium setups and sources right now?
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2019, 04:33:42 PM »
It is tempting to go with a CALB cell or Fortune Aluminium encased setup but I think I'll wait until the market develops a bit more. The fact that I install Outback systems makes me a bit more reluctant as I get installer pricing on those and not on any lithium option.
Installer in Central America based out of Nicaragua
FX3048T w/ Epanel and Classic 200SL w/Whizzbang jr, AXS port, 100Ah Outback 106NC,  4 x Topoint 190W 24V 72 cell modules. Grid tied currently.