Define 2 wire start generator

[tecnodave]

I am needing a bit of advice on AGS setup

The generator is a Generac GP17500E. It has a toggle switch for off/on operation but does require the user to hold down the start switch for the generator to start. Turning off the switch and the generator powers down. It apparently does have protective controls built in for low oil/high temp which will force a shutdown. And the starter ceases turning when the unit starts, apparently the unit senses running and disengages the starter.

The user/owner of the system is a metal sculpture artist and is not technically savvy so I must make this system foolproof for him.

I have

MagnaSine MS2024 inverter/charger
ME-ARC 50 remote
ME-BMK battery monitor kit with shunt
Victron Smart Solar 100/20 MPPT Controller
MidNite Baby Box and breakers
4X Surette S-550 batteries. L-16. 24 volt/525 ah/hr
Generac GP17500E generator. 17,500 watts 120/240 split phase

I did the initial design but I speak technilese and my client does not so I turned the sales over to NAWS and they did a great job but I had specified a Marine Kid controller due to its much better display of information and directly due to manufacturers support, and the built in AGS capabilities, but I do not know if the Kid with no external AGS can properly start and shutdown this generator.

Most power will be supplied by the generator as many hours of welding, plasma cutting, grinding is done in this shop, but there are many hours design phase where little power is needed to run lights, MacBook computer, Internet access etc.

MagnaSine was specified due to its simplicity of operation, keeping in mind my client is an artiste and is not at all an engineering type.

I have been given the option of upgrading the Victron controller to a marine kid but need advice on the AGS aspect of it.

Keep in mind this client had a solar system that failed due to consistently undercharged batteries. He had made most of the beginner mistakes and I need to keep him clear of something he cannot control.
System was Chinese tracer controller with harbor freight inverter, 12 volt, multiple AGM's in parallel,all junk now.

My choices now....upgrade to Kid controller.......2: AGS,   MagnaSine AGS-N , or other AGS with kid

I do not use AGS with my system as I have many more panels/controllers than I need and basically never have had to run generator just to charge solar system.

David

[ClassicCrazy]

I thought the only difference between regular and marine kid was the case .

Larry

[ClassicCrazy]

Take a look on this forum topic . Some of the last posts in it there was a schematic someone posted of their start system.

http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=3923.0

Larry

[tecnodave]

Larry,

I have read that thread but it really deals with portable generators which typically do not have remote start capability. The larger Generac and Onan units are a totally different case. They are meant to be remotely started so have built in protections including low oil shutdown, hi temp shut down , starter disable when engine is running etc. Some do have a complete AGS incorporated into the generator. All of the larger Onan's that I have worked on have AGS factory equipped. Actually it's called  (by Onan) the generator protection system. I have only Onan generators and I do not auto start.

Working with this unit it does appear to be so equipped but I would like to verify that.

On the Kid controller, the differences with the marine units are a much better mounting bracket, included BTS , and conformal coating on the circuit boards. This coating provides moisture protection for use in the marine environment.

I'm almost marine, I am only a few miles from the Pacific Ocean and backed up to the Santa Cruz/Santa Lucia Mountains so my humidity varies vastly throughout the day at 20 % r.h. into dripping wet at night with relative humidity at 100%. 

No snow here but we do get weather coming straight in off the Pacific.

David

[ClassicCrazy]

Thanks for the info David.
Yeah my generator here is manual - I just pull the cord !
We just have cold - already down to 18 below zero F at 8:30 pm and dropping - supposed to be even colder out next week .
At least I have enough firewood !

Larry

[tecnodave]

Ok this generator is not AGS compatible , the manufacturer does have a very expensive remote system which removes all the breakers and outlets and replaces with blank panel and remote start capability. They want more for the kit than was paid for the machine. If customer wants AGS then I will get a Magnum ME-AGS-N so he has a uniform system that he will be more likely to understand and maintain.

It's hard to convince an artiste's that electricity does not come from the outlet. I have to make it foolproof.

David

[Ron Swanson]

I don't understand setting anybody up with anything other than a full autostart generator, if you are the professional and they are the artiste who doesn't understand how electricity gets made.

The Kohler 14RESA has a good warranty in this service.  It runs on fuel that you don't put in with a Jerry can.  It is reasonably priced.  It just doesn't last that long if they have lousy solar.  For everything else it is just ducky.

[tecnodave]

Ron,

This installation is an off-grid art welding shop, the ganerator is run many hours a day doing tig,mig,stick,plasma cutting. The AGS would not be normally required in this case. Loads when not producing art are very moderate, small frig, Internet, MacBook web access,security system,phones, etc. The somewhat small solar was incorporated as a further backup and it was perfect over from a former shop, only a new controller.

My own system has no AGS, I'm 100 % redundant with two systems side by side. I am so over designed that I have never has a LBCO. Born off grid in Alaska! Card carrying off-gridder.

David

[tecnodave]

Ron,

You incorrectly assume that I am setting up this shop,  not even remotely, Pierre has been doing art metal work for 20 years and more. He selected the generator based on the welding work, not to backup the solar system. The solar was not even in the design phase of this due to the use of 25-60 kw/h daily off grid. $50,000 minimum to get utility! My design includes use of the existing generator as far more cost effective than using a dedicated auto start setup. The solar panels were leaf over from another shop. The basis of my design is the Inverter/charger and Surette batteries to provide small amounts of power. This in my option far more cost effective than to run the generator when not needed. This is a solar backed generator system, not a generator backed solar system!

Different situations all togather.

David