Author Topic: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?  (Read 190 times)

DanTheDane

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Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« on: February 25, 2019, 04:13:08 PM »
Hi,


Win Turbine: 2kW, 3phased, 48V, 40A
Solar Panels: 4x 280W, 38V, 9A
Batteri Bank: 8x Tudor Deep Cycle 12/100A/h volt batteries i series of 4


I've building a Grid-Tie'd system, with a 2Kw Win turbine 3 phased 48 volts, with 4x 280Watts solar panels. I've been looking and learning for some time now, got everything except the chargecontroller(s), and I decided Midnite Classic is the one to get. It's even cheaper than the original chargeregulator for my win mill. And the original comes with a emergency brake which I am no fan of.

It'll have to be the standard Classic, no SL when using Win Turbines, but which Classic would be the right one do you think? I'll add more panels in the future, and a homemade Win Turbine too. Or maybe a little cheap chinese just to see what happens.. I'm guessing it's a question of amps versus volts.. And the way I connect my panels. This is why I wanted to ask you in here.

Any help will be greatly apprechiated ;)

Kind Regards,
Dan

Westbranch

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 04:27:47 PM »
Go to the Classic string Sizing tool here,  http://www.midnitesolar.com/sizingTool/displaySizing.php
http://www.midnitesolar.com/sizingTool/index.php  to get the answer to how to design your array(s).
ADD This one works I don't know why the original didn't''

I think you may want to take a look at the MN Grid tie inverter, not released yet...

http://www.midnitesolar.com/video/videoPlay.php?video_ID=129&videoCat_ID=24
don't know anything about Wind turbines... sorry.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 07:01:42 PM by Westbranch »
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mike90045

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 06:36:12 PM »
Wind turbines NEED an emergency brake. 

Either a shorting plug that loads the alternator so much it can barely turn, or a disc brake off a motorcycle, or a volleyball net on a rope you can throw over the blades.

  If your batteries become full, and no longer require a charge, the turbine will be unloaded, freewheel and reach excessively high RPM's and grenade .  That seldom ends well.     

Belt, suspenders and a volleyball net !

The turbines charge controller is an additional controller to the Solar PV controller,  you need a controller for each.

Midnight used to have a Wind MPPT curve for their controllers, which is different for each wind turbine mfg
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

DanTheDane

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2019, 11:25:12 AM »
Hi Guys,

I did my Midnite Classic model 200 and it's here in the country now, at customs. Just paid the tax and it's be here in a couple of days. At last... I've been waiting forever!


Hi Westbranch ;)

Thanks for your help. I'm looking into this right now.
1. Regarding the upcoming Grid-Tie inverter, Robin Gudgel is quite right! We either have to choose between the expensive hardware from Scneider or the cheap "WYSIWYDG" products. "WhatYouSeeIsWhatYouDontGet" ;)
2. I couldn't get the link to the sizingtool to work, but I'm trying to find it elsewhere.


Hi Mike ;)

"...Wind turbines NEED an emergency brake. Either a shorting plug that loads the alternator so much it can barely turn, or a disc brake off a motorcycle, or a volleyball net on a rope you can throw over the blades..."


I didn't explain this well, I know. I know about the freewheeling, and that this is a no-go. A little explanation of what I meant and why I don't much care for the shorting of the phases and this combi electrical/mechanical braking resulting in stressing your turbine in the worst way possible.
Not all turbines are build to get the brakes slammed like this. Maybe they should be, but it's my understanding that they are not. I used to develop PSU's and ControlBoards for KONE Elevator systems here in Denmark, and I learned about these large tubular wirewound resistors which where used for braking. I wasn't the engineer designing the elevator, that's obvious, but I get the systems they build. They are using large resistors to put in between phases to make the generator/motor brake this way. Not just slam the phases together creating a s.... lot of heat right in generator/motor unit like they do with the the "MissouriJustShortItAll" switch http://mwands.com/store/small-3-phase-brake-switch. If it's to prevent damage or heat, if it's to get a controlled easy stop of service purposes or a completely other reason I don't know. But they are being used in the elevators which made me think that maybe we could use them to brake wind turbines in a better way than you see normally. So I went ahead and began putting this system together. But in the middle of it all, I watched a video on youtube of an obvious clever guy, Mr John Daniels, who where miles ahead of me. He was doing exactly this. Putting resistors in between the phases using these large resistors to brake. It can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9hn2fzAURA
What I'm trying to do now, is to do this automatically. Meanwhile all of this, I learned about Midnite and their box/system which does all this I believe. But I've been told it's very expensive, so I'm building my system anyway. I've been doing this with a Arduino and a Raspberry pi. I prefer using the raspberry pi for this little project. It's been a challenge getting the ModBUS controlled by the GPIO's/Python but I'm getting there.

What I still don't get is why it's not possible to connect your solar panels to the midnite classic along with the wind turbine. If it's configured as a wind turbine with a dump-load, and the values are within the limits of the midnite classic charge regulator?? I get taht it's not desirable because one want to be able to retrieve the data coming from the solar array for performance calculations, but anyway! Why not? So that we are able to retrieve data from the midnite regulator instead of this and some PWM solar charge regulator. I haven't ordered midnite nr 2 yet. It's pretty expensive to import it to Denmark. We pay tax'es like none here ;)

"...Midnight used to have a Wind MPPT curve for their controllers, which is different for each wind turbine mfg.."

Please explain this, I didn't quite get it... Sorry...


Thanks guys,

KR
Dan
Denmark


« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 11:45:06 AM by DanTheDane »

Vic

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2019, 01:16:17 PM »
Hi Dan,

Here are some existing Wind Curves from MidNite:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/documentsA.php?menuItem=documents&docCat_ID=23&docCatName=Wind Curves

Also,  there is the Knowledge Base  --  look at the last three entries,   under Wind:http://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/faq.php?cid=1

If you have not seen the above,   this is a bit of a start.
Have fun,   and good luck.

Vic
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 01:19:59 PM by Vic »
Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548s, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 3X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  Thanks MN for Great Products/Service/Support!

mike90045

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2019, 11:17:16 PM »
a 300W turbine from FraudAreUs will have a very different curve than a 900W turbine from FlyingBlades company, and that curve will be different from the 500W WaterSpoutWaterWheel   
Design amps, voltages and rpms vary so much between mfg's, they all need their own.
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar

Classic 200| 2Kw PV, 160Voc | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph )| Listeroid 6/1, st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | midnight ePanel & 4 SPDs | 48V, 800A NiFe battery bank | MS-TS-MPPT60 w/3Kw PV

DanTheDane

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 09:23:26 PM »
Hi Mike  ;D


a 300W turbine from FraudAreUs will have a very different curve than a 900W turbine from FlyingBlades company

That's a good one Mike...  :D   Thanks for the help Mike ;)


Hi Vic,

Thanks man. I need all the help I can get... And I received my midnite today.. Looking forward to get it hooked up. Just need to find the right size of dumpload.


Thanks for your help guys ;)

KR
Dan


Westbranch

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2019, 07:24:27 PM »
Dan,
I tested this link and it works... http://www.midnitesolar.com/sizingTool/index.php

If you go to the top right corner of the page you are reading this on there is a link to the main page for MidNiteSolar, and the link is in the space below the picture of a Classic  CC, just a ftere a pic of the Brat CC...
hth
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DanTheDane

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 04:09:21 PM »
Hi WestBranch,


Back again... Hi guys, I found it, thanks...

CLASSIC & KID STRING SIZING TOOL
These are great tools to help configure the Classic and MNKID with your system.
Classic String Sizing Tool
How to use the Classic String Sizing Tool

Then I just need to fill it out right. I'm not sure about the voltage I have to enter, because it's not specified if its AC or DC, if it's single phased calculation or what. I've got the specs here.
https://www.istabreeze.com/online/Windgenerator/i-2000-48V-Windgenerator-iSTA-BREEZE
It says 48Volts and 40Amps. Well, all the Midnites are within that range. My Second wind turbine is a 24 volt. I can choose it as a 48 edition, but then the volts are getting up there, right. So if this second turbine is a 24 volt, then we are only at 72volts give and take. Then I shoul be able to connect a third turbine, a turbine which I'm building myself.

I received my dumpload resistors this week. I had a great afternoon calculating the size of these, so that I could use them when I'm switch to 48volts batteribank (lithium-ion). The problem I guess, is to not get them to powerful (watts), because they'll pull to many Amps from the Midnite Controller. There weren't many of them in Denmark, so I chose these 200Watts, 1R resistors. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/panel-mount-fixed-resistors/7015692/. Then for my existing 24 volts system, I can connect them 3 in parallel, 2 in series. Like this:


I've received the Ohmites, adjustable for the brakingsystem I'm building. I've ordered manual switchblade contacts 100A edition i cobber, to make it work and find the right capacity before making the system automatic. The first ones are these, 300Watts, 5R and a model that endures heat easily... I've ordered 2 additional types. 8R and 10R editions, 300watts also. Then lets see how it works. I'll fiddle with the Watts when I've tested it, to be sure I don't destroy my turbine. Well, it can't be much worse than when a turbine is slammed short...





ClassicCrazy

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Re: Midnite Classic 150 or 250?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 09:38:00 PM »
Take a look at this for alternative wind control instead of dump load.
http://www.windsine.org/
system one
Classic 150 , 5s4p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system two
Classic 150 ,5s 135 watt Kyocero , 16s Calb 100AH LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system three
Midnite KID MPPT 24 DC in to  12 volt AGM batterie