Hypothetical Antarctica Wind Diesel Battery Back Up Hybrid System

[JimRoss]

I'll just come out and say it as it is probably easiest:

I'm currently working on a master degree in system engineering and for our final class we have a research project where we have to design a small base in Antarctica to drill ice cores. Have the entire base designed except for the power subsystem. Looking to piece together a wind diesel generator battery back up hybrid system to power the base. Base has a load of 24Kw so for a 24 hour period it comes out to be 576Kwh. I have a large enough diesel generator to power the base 24 hours a day for the duration of the mission. Want to offset some of the power production with x3 10Kw wind turbines putting off 3 phase AC. Also want to include a battery back up system that could be used to power emergency systems if generators failed. Haven't spec'd batteries yet. Can anyone help me with specifying which of Midnite's products I could piece together to finish the balance of the system to accomplish this? If you send me a message with your name I will of course add you as a reference if you would like. 

[ClassicCrazy]

Is your design to have the batteries heated ? It would make a big difference in your design and selection if they are going to be cold.
I won't get into what a project it would be to install those wind generators and keep them running 
For electronics from Midnite you would need the charge controllers , depending on what kind of wind generators you need clippers too I guess ( I am not a wind expert) and you need the associated Midnite panels, breakers, disconnects, surge protectors, etc.  The big thing would be the inverters - depending on what voltages you need to make and those could also charge the batteries from the generator. Midnite doesn't have any inverters on the market yet so  you would have to look else where for those.

Larry

[mike90045]

What are your expected temperature ranges you will design for ?

For the wind turbines, what is the de-icing plan for the Blades & other Moving parts?  Spare parts ? A crane to access the head end ?

Too bad Jacobs does not build their bullet proof turbines any more.  I think one is still surviving down there.

For a novel approach, consider Nickel - Iron batteries that don't freeze till way cold :   -30⁰ C 

Diesel, I would have 2 identical generator sets, and alternate them weekly.  Maybe 3, if I relied on them for life.

[JimRoss]

Wow thank you both for the quick responses already I greatly appreciate it. Assume the batteries and all balance of the system commodities are houses within a heated utility building. Outside the building will be the 3 wind turbines. Also assume the wind turbines are fully rated and able to function in the Antarctic climate. My biggest question if about the selection of real life components to complete the balance of the system. I started this process knowing very little and have been doing research for almost 6 months now to try and piece this together. In my head this is how I see the system working and maybe some of the experts here could correct me or suggest improvements. Also attached a quick layout of this possible system. Is it missing anything?

The 3 10Kw wind turbines would produce AC which I would then need to pass through a rectifier(would I combine into 1 or have 3?) before feeding it into a charge controller and then into my battery bank. I believe I need a dump load here which would be a resistive air heater. Does Midnight have a charge controller that can handle 3 10Kw turbines or would I need to piece 3 or more together?

Then would my duel generator setup feed also into the charge controller or is there some missing component I need here? Generators are a backup in case the wind turbines aren't providing enough power. Hoping these can be turned on automatically via the charge controller or is there some missing brain I need?

From the charge controller I'd need an inverter to convert the DC back to AC and then feed it into the base.

Again thank you for even reading this far!   

[tecnodave]

There is a battery company that specializes in Artic batteries, Alaska Husky Battery Company, formerly of Anchorage, Alaska, now in Moscow, Russia. Their FLA Artic batteries did not freeze at -70 degrees F. Super high s.g......1.320 very high ratio of lead to electrolyte.....not for hot use!

[Westbranch]

Tell us more about the season this equipment will operate in: summer / winter and the expected temps and winds . hours of sunshine, etc....
that may help us skip some redundant questions.

There is one turbine called IceWind made in  Iceland but it seems to have failed  or   with HARSH WINTER STORMS...

Their testing was more ''install and see if the winds breaks it this time..''.
https://vimeo.com/175852127,

The point I liked was they were not after max output but reliable, continuousoutput in the Harsh Icelandic winter winds.... a point that the FOX missed in his Monologue FAIL...

[ClassicCrazy]

A lot of info about wind at Otherpower
https://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/board,5.0.html?PHPSESSID=a812bd91b3f08c1a210da0366ad48b9c

Also check out the book
Homebrew Windpower
https://www.amazon.com/Homebrew-Wind-Power-Dan-Bartmann/dp/0981920101

And this will help you understand dump loads and alternatives
http://www.windsine.org/

Larry

[mike90045]

Also assume the wind turbines are fully rated and able to function in the Antarctic climate. My biggest question if about the selection of real life components to complete the balance of the system.

So if you think you can obtain 3 turbines that will function in antarctic, just dream up the rest of the system. 

If I wanted to simply use imaginary parts that never fail I'd get some of the moonlight solar PV panels.

I fail to see the point of a design exercise and overlooking/ignoring the parts most likely not to last.

[JimRoss]

Mike didn't mean to give offense by my response. My statement was just around the fact that we are assumed to have wind turbines that are capable of operating maintenance free for the duration of the mission. My questions were mainly around assistance with specifying what midnight solar components would work in conjunction with the 3 10Kw wind turbines and 2 12Kw diesel generators to provide the balance of the system. I originally looked into solar but from my napkin math it would take a pretty large solar field to power the base and didn't seem practical from a layout perspective. If you don't see a point in this post please don't waste anymore of your time on it. It was more or less supposed to be a fun exercise to help an aspiring college student not to make anyone angry or waste time.

Thank you to everyone else that has given suggestions. I'm currently pouring through those suggestions and looking at incorporating them. 

[ClassicCrazy]

Your block diagram above makes a few wrong connections .
It would go wind generator to controller ( with rectifier in between) . The controller connects to the batteries and keeps them happy.
An inverter/charger  connects to the batteries and then supplies AC to your loads.
But you can also have the AC generator connect to the inverter/charger to charge your batteries. The inverter/charger I have is an Outback that is designed to operate on the battery voltage I have which is 24v. When my generator is on it also automatically chargers the batteries as needed - the Outback has its own battery charge controller built in to it. The Outback can do other things like switch the loads from battery to generator and auto start the generator etc. I don't use all the features it has so don't know all the details.

If you are talking about the equipment using three phase AC  there are probably other more commercial grade inverters that would do that instead of the Outback inverter I have which may be able to do that but need to be stacked and phased ,etc.  They may have a heavier duty line of inverters than I have too - hard to keep up with everything out there.

Larry

[RossW]

Your block diagram above makes a few wrong connections .

And some other incorrect assumptions IMHO.
In this kind of scenario, you want to try to eliminate single points of failure where you can.
Some environments make sure they have one or two redundant systems. Many of us don't have the financial luxury of just doubling or tripling up on everything so try to work a little smarter.

It would go wind generator to controller ( with rectifier in between) . The controller connects to the batteries and keeps them happy.

Yes. And there was a question earlier about individual rectifiers, or connecting all 3 turbines together.
AC outputs of most conventional turbines can't simply be paralleled. Out of phase signals cause problems, a turbine with less wind will be "drawn along" with power from the others resulting is wasted power, and should the unthinkable happen - one freezes solid or develops an internal short, you could have all three out of action.

Far better for each turbine to have its own controls, shutdown, rectifier, etc. Gives you some redundancy as well.

An inverter/charger  connects to the batteries and then supplies AC to your loads.
But you can also have the AC generator connect to the inverter/charger to charge your batteries. The inverter/charger I have is an Outback that is designed to operate on the battery voltage I have which is 24v. When my generator is on it also automatically chargers the batteries as needed - the Outback has its own battery charge controller built in to it. The Outback can do other things like switch the loads from battery to generator and auto start the generator etc. I don't use all the features it has so don't know all the details.

I'm in Australia, and our nominal mains is 240V/50Hz. My backup generator is 240V/50Hz. The inverter is also a charger, can auto-start the genset etc. Being a "generator-interactive" unit, it will synchronise the inverter to the genset when it's running, and gently transfer load from the inverter to the genset, then will draw any remaining available capacity to charge the batteries.

The other good thing with this arrangement is that in the unlikely event the inverter blows up, it is POSSIBLE to isolate it from the system and run the entire site straight off the generator. Again, this gives some redundancy in the event of a critical component being unservicable.

If you are talking about the equipment using three phase AC  there are probably other more commercial grade inverters that would do that instead of the Outback inverter I have which may be able to do that but need to be stacked and phased ,etc.  They may have a heavier duty line of inverters than I have too - hard to keep up with everything out there.

I'd think that polyphase inverters are more efficient, but at the end of the day, when lives depend on it, the more options you have, the better. Many years ago, I did some work at a mountaintop aviation nav-aid site. They had unreliable power due to the terrain, falling trees, storms etc. The single-wire, earth-return feed ran a motor that was on a long, heavy shaft. On one end of the shaft sat a large, 3-phase alternator that ran the site. On the other end of the shaft was a large flywheel, a clutch, and a diesel engine.

In the event of a power fail, the flywheel kept things running while the diesel fired up.