Amperage ramps up then drops to zero

Started by silverstr8p, August 24, 2019, 04:25:50 PM

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ClassicCrazy

Your battery voltage is really low especially since you have them charging.
You should check the voltage on each battery separately - wouldn't hurt to disconnect them to do that  when you check with a multimeter.
My guess is one or more of them are not in good shape.

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

ClassicCrazy

A battery temp sensor is a good idea if your batteries will get cold - then it will compensate the charge voltage.
A Whizbang and shunt to mount it on are a good thing because you can see exactly how much power is going into your batteries and how much into your loads. Also after you get it set up correctly you can see a good estimate of your state of charge - SOC and a total of how much power you have used every day.

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

silverstr8p

The battery voltage is low because this was first thing in the a.m. and so the batteries were low still, in fact the inverter shut off on low voltage. These batteries charge up fine and last a long time when fully charged other ways, it's just that this charge controller doesn't seem to be charging them very well, and I still don't know why.

I'm still thinking about re-configuring the Tri-Star as a charge controller and just using that, I've had really good luck with Morningstar on lots of others sites, in fact that's what was used with these batteries before. I just can't get the Midnite unit to behave, I still think I'm missing something.

Was there anything else in my configuration that should be changed?

boB


I would change the Classic's MPPT MODE to Legacy P&O instead of SOLAR mode.

At lower PV input voltages and 12V battery, that might work better, especially if sweeps are interfering with diversion.

Even if diversion is disabled I would give Legacy a try.

boB
K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

FNG

I have seen this behavior on classics that had a firmware update and did not get factory restored.

What I would do is set the dip switches to custom, write down your settings and do a factory restore. After that, I would use the local app to program in all your settings and see if that doesn't fix the issue

here are the steps to a factory restore on a Lite:

The way to do the hardware version of the factory restore (VMM)is as follows. There are 4 sets of jumpers directly above the blue terminal block. For the purpose of this we will call the left most jumper JP1 and the right most JP4 (actually labeled ^Boot^)

    Step 1- Turn the PV and Battery power off to the Classic and remove the front cover
    Step 2- Locate the 2 jumpers JP1 and BOOT (JP4). Take the actual jumpers and keep them in your hand
    Step 3- Turn the Battery power on to the classic
    Step 4- within 1 minute place jumper JP4 on its two pins and then place jumper JP1 on its two pins. at this point the 3 leds on the top of the circuit board should flash back and forth for about 60 seconds.
    Step 5- After the flashing stops power down the classic and remove JP1 and JP4 and stow them back on a single pin like they where.
    Step 6- Put the front cover on and power up the Classic Lite. If you have the MNLP set to Custom you will need to go to the local app and reset the battery voltage and setpoints etc.

silverstr8p

Okay, so this is the actual unit, and I *think* I just plug in the USB mini cable right next to the Ethernet cable and use the Win7 utility to program the firmware? I downloaded version 2193 for a Classic 250V, so hopefully that's correct. I think I remember seeing a firmware upgrade option on the desktop app though, so to be clear, that's not the one I want, I need the USB cable?

ClassicCrazy

#21
Yes you need to use the usb cable and the update software from where you downloaded the firmware update.
It will guide you through the process. You don't have to update the MNGP since you don't have one.

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

silverstr8p

#22
Okay, I attempted to set the jumpers, took a picture before and after (attached).

When I powered the unit back up, the three LED's near the top of the PCB lit up for a few seconds right away and then went out while I still had the jumpers removed.

I put them on the jumpers I thought were the right ones within about 15 seconds and waited awhile, but the top LED's never came back on. When I removed the jumpers again and powered the unit back on, the desktop app said nothing had changed, so I think I did something wrong.

Then I hooked up the USB cable (show in attachment), but Windows 10 complained the USB driver isn't signed, so it wouldn't connect the "virtual COM port" over USB. Then I tried my Mac with Win7 VM, but the Mac wouldn't pass the USB connection through to the Win7 VM, so I'm trying to dig up an old Win7 netbook and try it there, will report back what happens.

Anyway, the unit behaves the same way so far. Here are the settings I copied down from the desktop app before starting, let me know if any of these are off:

Setings
        Check for Updates       Daily
        Autodetect Classics     checked
        Enable Data Logging     checked
Unlock Code xxxxx

Basic
        Name Classic
        MPPT Mode Solar On
        Battery Voltage 12V
        Absorb 14.4 2:00 Force
        Equalize 15.1 2:00 Auto Equalize not checked
        Float Volts 13.7 Force
        LED Mode Rick Mode
        Bully Menu Reboot
        Classic Time should probably set

Advanced
        Diversion Off
                Off Volts 10    On Volts 60
                Delay Time 0.1  Hold Time 1
        Diversion High Off
                Volts 90        Width 1
        Limits
                Min Volts 13.2  Max volts 15.1
Temp Compensation
        Compensate Equalize Voltage unchecked
        -5 mv/C/cell Compensation 14.4
Battery status meter
        Efficiency 10   Capacity 5Ah    Compensation 0%
USB Mode
        Log Dump

Tech
        MPPT Mode
                Sweep Interval 3
        Ending Amps     0 Use WBjr for End Amps unchecked
Rebulk Volts 8
Days Between Bulk 0
IP Address 192.168.0.223
        Subnet 0.0.0.0  Gateway 0.0.0.0
Web Access disabled
Modbus Port 502
Offsets
        Battery Voltage 0
        Input Voltage 0
        Input 25.3 Batt 12.3
Arc Fault enable unchecked
Ground Fault Enabled checked
LoMax Enable checked
Features
        Night Auto Reset Enable unchecked
        Insomnia Enable         unchecked
        Keep Loggin at Night    checked
        Reset New Ah on 100%    unchecked
Follow Me       unchecked
        Follow Master's Battery sensor  unchecked
Modbus Address 10

ClassicCrazy

#23
I would try the jumpers again .
You probably want to get the jumpers on before the LEDs flash the three time because that I think means it is booting up normally.
instructions for hard reset . Here are the instructions from update page/
The way to do the hardware version of the factory restore (VMM)is as follows. There are 4 sets of jumpers directly above the blue terminal block. For the purpose of this we will call the left most jumper JP1 and the right most JP4 (actually labeled ^Boot^)

    Step 1- Turn the PV and Battery power off to the Classic and remove the front cover
    Step 2- Locate the 2 jumpers JP1 and BOOT (JP4). Take the actual jumpers and keep them in your hand
    Step 3- Turn the Battery power on to the classic
    Step 4- within 1 minute place jumper JP4 on its two pins and then place jumper JP1 on its two pins. at this point the 3 leds on the top of the circuit board should flash back and forth for about 60 seconds.
    Step 5- After the flashing stops power down the classic and remove JP1 and JP4 and stow them back on a single pin like they where.
    Step 6- Put the front cover on and power up the Classic Lite. If you have the MNLP set to Custom you will need to go to the local app and reset the battery voltage and setpoints etc.

Are you using the programming utility that came with firmware update ?  You have to make an exception for that windows 10 signing error - I think there is something that says use it anyway on that message that comes up .
detailed instructions for firmware update
http://www.midnitesolar.com/firmware/classic/Firmware_install_Windows10_REVB.pdf

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

bee88man

Really, 10% efficency on a 5 Ahr. battery?

silverstr8p

I attempted to update the firmware to 2193 by first uploading it on my Win7 box, which looks like it succeeded (maybe) which took several minutes, shown in attached photo. But then after it says it succeeded, the LED's just kept blinking after about 20 minutes, so I'm not sure whether it worked or not. Here's the video of what it looked like after the update:

https://youtu.be/JQ2YVl69Neg

After about 10 more minutes, I cycled power on the unit and it came up normally with the Desktop app, but the background changed from green to yellow. Then after I set the system time, it changed back to green. I still don't know how I can determine what the firmware version is on the unit, how do I do that?

Also, the charge controller does the same exact thing as before with the amperage dropping then rising. I mounted the Morningstar Tri-Star 45 right next to it, wired it up, and my system now runs perfect, so the issue really is with the Classic 250 Lite, though I'm not sure how to really update it still.


ClassicCrazy

You can see what version you have on the Local Status App  Status / Info
When you have all the settings you want to use and if you have the switches in the right positions so you can program it via Local Status App  ( custom I think ? )  then you can save all your settings with Local Status App on Config - first window at the bottom is Export  Registers . To restore them do Import Registers.
You should do another hard reset with the jumpers
Then restore the registers and check them on the Config windows again to make sure they were restored.
Ryan has a lot of videos on the Midnite Youtube page that shows how to do all this stuff - take a look.

Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

FNG

I still think this is a bug of haing an update without a restore, I wouold really focus on that. And as others have said the firmware version is viewable on the local app

silverstr8p

I'm planning on hauling it off the mountain and putting it on the workbench where it's easier to work on, will report back. Now that I have the Morningstar working I'll continue to have a fridge while I'm troubleshooting.

silverstr8p

I put it on the bench and did the factory reset with the jumpers, here's a video of what's happening when I did that.

https://youtu.be/bykXuWhPkG8

I think the main thing is getting jumper 4 on really quickly after you plug power in, then do the second jumper after that.

Once this process was done, I re-imported the registers I had saved to a text file before I started. Now it looks like:

Classic 250V (rev 4)
IP: 192.168.0.223:502
Firmware:     
- Classic Rev: 2193
- Network Rev: 2122

Is there anything I missed before I trudge back up the hill and re-install this thing?