Classic 150- power in but no power out

Started by Justo, February 11, 2020, 03:54:01 AM

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Justo

Hi,

First timer so pls be patient :)
I have 2 classic 150’s that have been running fine for years and now one has issues. The fan noise was exceptionally loud the day before it decided to play up so I suspect a faulty fan/s. The issue is, it’s getting power from the PV as usual but only putting 0.2amps into the battery bank. See photo attached, controller on left doing all the work. Could a faulty fan/s cause this? If so, would replacing the fans fix it or would it have overheated and caused irreparable damage?
Cheers,


Justo

boB


I thin that if the fans have something to do with this, then it would be indirectly related...

If the lazy Classic  was hot, it should show up on the display.

Are your two PV arrays fairly similar ?  If so, then the Classic with the low power's PV input voltage looks like it might be very near Voc which is most likely the issue.   Notice the Classic on the left has its input voltage down around 80 volts where the Classic on the right's PV input is only being dragged down to 116V...

Kind of weird that this would all of a sudden start doing this.  If one or both Classics were in or near being in Absorb, then I might see  this but the battery voltage is low enough that I don't think that is it.

For starters I would go to the right-hand Classic's MODE menu and if it is in SOLAR mode, try changing it to Legacy P&O

Watch the input voltage drag down where it is for the left side Classic and watch the power and see if it rises properly.

You can also try adjusting the PV input voltage up or down by repeatedly pressing the upper right or upper left soft keys while in the main status screen like you have shown in your picture.   When it comes down, below, say, 100 volts, the output power should come up quite a bit more than it is now and around 80 or 90 volts, it should be putting out a lot more.

So, it looks to me like a tracking issue somehow unless there is something I haven't thought of here.

Let us know how that other mode or changing the PV input voltage goes.
K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

Justo

Hi boB, thanks for the input mate, much appreciated!

Yes, both PV arrays are almost identical as is normally indicated on both controllers. The wort part about the situation is that I’m not at home as I work away. I’ve been trying to fault find via FaceTime with my wife and it’s proving difficult. There is also no service tech in my area that can help inside of 2 weeks!

The Fett temps didn’t go above 90’c on that unit but came very close a couple of days before it failed.

The only change to the system recently was the installation of another independent Victron inverter used to power my workshop. I was away when installed but besides powering down the system, I couldn’t imagine how this could affect the controller.

I’ve attached a video of the noise the fan was making and a photo of the new inverter wired in. Could be a coincidence, but it all happens at the same time of the install.

I will do my best to try your suggestions and let you know how it goes

Thanks again, Justo

Vic

#3
Hi Justo,

It sounds like the Turbo Fan is running on the Classic on the right.   This seems normal to me,  when the FET temps get above about 50 C or so.

That Classic is producing a lot of power  --  perhaps about 3800 W.   It is difficult to read the Classic screen,   due to reflections.   And the WB Status screen does not show voltages.
EDIT:  AND.   of course,   the current displayed is that which is going into  the battery.   Any other loads are being powered,   as well.   SO,   that Classis is doing a lot of work  -  stating the obvious.<

boB's suggestion of adjusting the Voc from the ,main status page should be very telling  --  if there is a poor connection in the cable/breaker from the PV array on that Classic,   trying to increase the load that PV array,   should be a hint of what might be wrong.

Just IMO,   good luck,  Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

Justo

Hi Vic, boB
Thanks for the info mate.
When I press the upper left and right buttons whilst on the main status page, I don’t see any change in settings so how do I know what limit I set?
As a coincidence when I was watching the main status screen, the input voltage dropped to 85v and subsequently everything went to normal. This only lasted for about 30 seconds before the input voltage went back to 120v and unit resting!

Cheers, Justo

Vic

Hi Justo,

What Mode is this Classic using?

If you are using Legacy P&O,  or other Modes,   changing the Vin  with the Soft buttons,   may not work.

In Solar Mode,   using the upper Left and Right Soft buttons should change the Vin,   IIRC.

FWIW,   Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

Justo

Hi vic,

It’s set on Solar mode. I did try Legacy P&O as boB suggested but made no difference. I still see no change using the upper soft touch buttons when on the main status page in photos.

Cheers, Justo

Vic

Quote from: Justo on February 11, 2020, 06:21:15 AM

   â€¦   The Fett temps didn’t go above 90’c on that unit but came very close a couple of days before it failed   â€¦

Thanks again, Justo

Just noticed the above,  Justo.

If that is not a typo,   then the FETs are astonishingly HOT,   not that many degrees below boiling water. This simply cannot be.

If you were seeing FET temps,   that high,   that Classic might have problems with the two internal fans,   and perhaps only the Turbo fan is trying to cool that Classic … dunno.

You also mentioned in a later post,   that  for 30 seconds,   or so,   the lagging Classic did produce normal-ish power.   This is curious,   just why it would stop.  Wonder what would happen if you temporarily set the Mode on the Classic that is doing all of the charge,   to,   OFF,   and see how the laggard reacts.

This is becoming beyond my pay-grade.

In the photo in your initial post,   it looks like  the working Classic is in Current Limit (Yellow LED at the left on the display),   but only at 60 Amps output,   IIRC,   that is also curious,   unless that Classic is HOT,   in a HOT ambient temperature …   and so on.

Done doing too much guessing for now.    FWIW, Vic
Off Grid - Sys 1: 2ea SW+ 5548, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH, 5.25 KW PV, Classic 150,WB, Beta Barcelona, Beta KID
Sys 2: SW+ 5548s, 4KS25s, 5.88 KW PV, 2 ea. Classic 150, WB, HB CC-needs remote Monitoring/Control, site=remote.
 MN Bkrs/Bxs/Combiners. Thanks MN for Great Products/Svc/Support&This Forum!!

Justo

Hi Vic,

Yes mate, the ambient temp is 35+’c so fet temps are usually high.

I also believe the internal fans have failed and have a fan kit to install when time permits.

Just found something interesting, the PV in volts on the classic are incorrect. The classic indicates 130v yet when tested with a meter, it reads around 90v, and what I would expect. This doesn’t look good for the classic, could be terminal!!!

Cheers, Justo.

boB


Yeah, the Classic will limit its output power when the FETs get around that 90 C temperature.

That's gotta be what's happening.   It's your summer now, or towards the end.

What you might try, and I know this sounds un-necessarily stupid is to place an external fan to blow on the Classic and see if it helps.

I was looking in the picture for an LED on the MNGP display (the bottom orange one I think ?) to show high-temperature and current limit.  Current limiting is how the Classic reduces its output power.   It normally reduces in 5 amp output steps.  If temperature rises faster, it can drop 10 amps.   To drop the output current the Classic raises the input PV voltage so that's gotta be what your are seeing.

K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

Justo

Thanks boB,

I always run an external cooling fan for all the equipment due to the high temps.

I replaced the 3 cooling fans in the unit today but no change so I had to take action and purchase a replacement CC.

Cheers, Justo