Classic wont reach equalization volts.

[Vic]

Hi z..,

Nice Video.   Your settings look fine,  to me.

FW 2193,   is the latest,   on the MN Solar site.

Could you do a fairly full-charge on these 6V batteries,   and then EQ,   with bright sun on the same day,   or,  on the following day with little over-night discharge of the batteries. and do a similar video,   or,  screen shots of the LA Dashboard,   that would be helpful.

Thanks for the additional info.   Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

You video was helpful showing all the setpoints.
Maybe you coudl video of manually start equalize and show the status screen - that would be good to see what is going on.
Like you say- seems like when it is in equalize it should go up to the equalize setpoint.
But being able to see what it is doing for a bit would help some of us who have spent too many hours looking at all those dials figuring out what it all means - maybe we can spot something.
I always use Solar instead of Legacy PO  .  Maybe try changing it to Solar on first config Basic screen  and see what happens. Do you know why it was set to Legacy instead of default Solar ?

Larry

[boB]

I would leave it in Legacy for now.  SOLAR tracking is a bit faster but for this exercise, leave it in Legacy.
Either tracking mode should give the same results but Legacy P&O mode will keep from other questions being asked at the moment.

I agree, great to have that video !  Everything looks good to me.  AND the question of the high voltage limit is answered (70V) and your PV array voltage all being high enough.  It is running in that video at around 50 volts, plenty high enough and getting lots of power output.

It would be nice to see, when trying to EQ, if the CLassic is still in EQ MPPT ?

How about this....  Temporarily set the Absorb voltage to 32.4V and see if that makes it get to the wanted EQ voltage.  When you do that though, the EQ voltage may go slightly higher setting, possibly 32.5V  as the Classic tried tries to keep the 3 voltage settings above each other.  Float, Absorb and then EQ being the highest voltage but I think it is 0.1 volt difference only.

Also make sure to press update Classic or send values to Classic in the local app.  I can't remember the exact wording that sends the new values to the Classic ?

After all of that,  IF the Classic still says BULK MPPT or EQ MPPT when the battery voltage is "almost" up to 32.4 V, then either there is not enough power available  (I know you have PLENTY of PV available)  or  you can try manually moving the PV input voltage down a bit....  OR up.  I don't know if you can do that with the Local App software though ?  You can change the tracking mode to set your own PV voltage though I think.  Which would be somewhere around 50V but maybe  45V or 55 V to change the power point voltage.

If you have the Classic's MNGP display nearby, you can raise and lower the PV input voltage by pressing and holding the soft-left or soft-right keys on the MNGP when it is in the main STATUS screen.   After a minute or so though, it will re-track itself unless you have the Classic in some manual model

So, it looks like you have things set correctly but would be nice to see it in EQ mode or for you to try setting the Absorb voltage to 32.4V

boB

boB

[Vic]

Please let me add the following,   this behavior had been gently reported here,  several times:

So,  today was a full-charge day,   for this 48 V battery,   that runs STC String Vmp of 106 V,  nominal.

Absorb had finished,  Classic (CC) in Float,  delivering about 980 Watts (running the Air Conditioner (A/C):

Solar Mode
Vin 112.6 V
Last Voc 116.8 V
CC power 980 Watts

Switched to Legacy P&O
Started an EQ (at 62.8 V)
Vin REMAINED 112.6 V
CC power remained at 980-ish W
Stuck in EQ-MPPT with Vbattery about 54.5 V

After 15 minutes in P&O:
Vin 112.8 V
Last Voc 116.8 V
CC out 980 W nominal

Lowered the Vin by pressing the Left Soft button,  numerous times.
At about 90 V,  Vin to the CC,   the CC was producing about ,   43 A (2625 W).   Last Voc,  still 116.8 V.

Pressing Enter did not start a new sweep,   so,  changed the Mode,  to Solar,  pressed Enter.   The CC began producing 2600 W nominal,  and noticed that the Solar resweeps brought the Vin down to 90-ish V.

Perhaps z started from Float,  (in Legacy P&O)   and this is the reason for low CC production.

Seems,  to me,   that when changing from Float to,  at least,   EQ,  the CC will NOT resweep when in Legacy P&O Mode,   and it really should do so.

And,  z,   forget just why you are running Legacy P&O,   but,   as mentioned several times before,  you might try Solar Mode,   OR,  you might need to be the person that must adjust the Vin,   depending on changing Solar,   or temperature  conditions.

Comments,  boB ?

All just my observations from using this system with Classic FW 2126.
FWIW,  Thanks,  Vic

[boB]

Vic, your example of the two modes, SOLAR and Legacy both got the same results.  This is good !

As far as starting from Float...  It shouldn't matter.  Are you saying that when forcing an EQ after being in Float, EQ doesn't sweep down in Legacy mode ?

I haven't seen that before.  Not sure why that would be ?   But Z is seeing the battery voltage come up so the PV is definitely coming down.

The only question is WHY isn't the battery voltage coming up to 32.4V ?   Doesn't make sense...  And if the PV array has enough power and a high enough voltage, which is certainly does appear to have, the the PV input voltage must NOT be at Maximum power point voltage.  If it were, then the battery voltage would be as high as the PV array would bring it up.  There's just no other way unless he was running out of power and I don't think that's the issue here.

But I would like to see the screen and voltage when in EQ mode OR in Absorb when the Absorb voltage is set to 32.4V

[ClassicCrazy]

What if one of the cells in the battery was bad ? Then it couldn't come up in voltage .
I think Z said he has two different types of batteries in parallel - maybe different ages too - less than ideal and prone to imbalances that could weaken a cell .
Wonder if Z has felt the batteries when they are charging to see if one is getting hotter than others -- or if he has taken volt readings of individual batteries to see if one has a bad cell. Or if they are flooded take the SG readings ? Maybe he answered these things already - I just don't feel like going back to reread everything now.

Larry

[Vic]

Vic, your example of the two modes, SOLAR and Legacy both got the same results.  This is good !

As far as starting from Float...  It shouldn't matter.  Are you saying that when forcing an EQ after being in Float, EQ doesn't sweep down in Legacy mode ?

I haven't seen that before.  Not sure why that would be ?   But Z is seeing the battery voltage come up so the PV is definitely coming down.

The only question is WHY isn't the battery voltage coming up to 32.4V ?   Doesn't make sense...  And if the PV array has enough power and a high enough voltage, which is certainly does appear to have, the the PV input voltage must NOT be at Maximum power point voltage.  If it were, then the battery voltage would be as high as the PV array would bring it up.  There's just no other way unless he was running out of power and I don't think that's the issue here.

But I would like to see the screen and voltage when in EQ mode OR in Absorb when the Absorb voltage is set to 32.4V

boB,   thanks for the reply.

Solar Mode in Float,   is essentially identical to Legacy when trying to EQ,   because the CC appears to be stuck,  with the Vin,  identical to that when lightly-loaded during Float in Solar Mode.

YES,   am saying that in Legacy,  when trying to change to EQ,   that the CC never seems to sweep,   just stuck where it happened to be when in Float.   Have seen times when the loading on the CC during Float was only 2 amps,   or so.   Then when going to EQ,   the CC still is trying to get to EQ with 2 amps of output current.

In the above cases,   the remedy,  is to switch to Solar mode,   where after a couple of minutes,   the Classic Sweeps,   and produces all of the power that is available from PV,  until it reaches the EQ target voltage.

This is not a loud whine,   as,   here we only manually EQ,   and,   if in Legacy,   one can switch to Solar.

On occasion,   when trying to EQ,  switching twix Solar and Legacy,   the CC can get stuck in a Solar Mode,   where the battery voltage is dragged down to Vbat + 5 - 6 V,   producing low-ish power.

All of this is when using Classic FW 2126 (not the latest).

Anyway,   this has never been my hill to die on   â€¦   know of a way to get out of this situation.   Before mentioning the above,   wanted to test this again,   to make certain that there would be some data given.   We Skip Days for full charge,   and,   today was a full-charge day,   bright sun,  so a good test day.

But,   many of us usually recommend manual EQing only after a complete Absorb (with transition to Float).   So,   after re-testing the above,   thought that this might be a factor in z's situation.

Thanks.   Previously,  when we mentioned this situation,   it was more in the context of possibly for newer MN CCs,   that this could be looked at.    It is not uncommon to use the logic from earlier tech products in later units that are similar,  (why re-invent,   and so on)

Thanks!   Vic

[Vic]

What if one of the cells in the battery was bad ? Then it couldn't come up in voltage .
I think Z said he has two different types of batteries in parallel - maybe different ages too - less than ideal and prone to imbalances that could weaken a cell .
Wonder if Z has felt the batteries when they are charging to see if one is getting hotter than others -- or if he has taken volt readings of individual batteries to see if one has a bad cell. Or if they are flooded take the SG readings ? Maybe he answered these things already - I just don't feel like going back to reread everything now.

Larry

Hi Larry,

Believe,  that z said that he had disconnected the bank of 2V L-16,   and was trying to EQ the 6V L-16 bank.

Early In this Thread,  he listed the individual battery voltages.   They were not too far apart,   which implied that there was probably not a bad cell,   although   â€¦

Based on the current that the 6V batteries are Acccepting (assuming that the inverter if OFF,  and no loads on it),   that there was probably not an open cell.   And,  based on the individual battery voltages,   there was probably not an shorted cell.   Just guessing.

Had asked for SG readings for each cell of the 6V bank,   but that was not greeted with happiness.

Anyway,   we all are left with a number of guesses,   and all hope that the loop can be closed on this.

73   Thanks,   be safe,   VIc

[boB]

If there WAS an issue with a battery or cell then it would just take more power or current to get the voltage higher, such as 32.4V.

This is why the input PV voltage is important.  Must find out if the Classic has the PV at the Vmp or is it off ?

If the Classic is in EQ MPPT at this time, then it is trying hard to get the voltage up BUT if it is NOT at the actual Vmp, then there is a tracking problem.   This is why he needs to check those voltages out while EQing and report back.  Better yet, manually adjust the Vmp while in EQ to make sure it really is on the correct Vmp using either the Local App or the MNGP front panel using the soft keys while in main status.

IF the Classic is actually AT maximum power point voltage, Vmp, then the system is just running at its maximum power and either more sun or more panels are needed.   It happens sometimes that the PV arrays can not put out their power ratings.

I think these may be DIY panels but from what I saw on Z's YT channel, he has done a really nice job !  Much nicer than any other home built PV array I have seen before.  Definitely a smart cookie !

We'll figure this out soon.  I know it.  More testing and data required is all.

As far as the Float to EQ sweeping issue, have you looked at the Temp-Comp VIEW to see if the target battery voltage is at the EQ setting ?  If it is just that it doesn't SWEEP when forcing an EQ from Float, (if that is how you are doing it), then that must be fixed.

[Vic]

   â€¦    Must find out if the Classic has the PV at the Vmp or is it off ?

    …    manually adjust the Vmp while in EQ to make sure it really is on the correct Vmp using either the Local App or the MNGP front panel using the soft keys while in main status.

IF the Classic is actually AT maximum power point voltage, Vmp, then the system is just running at its maximum power and either more sun or more panels are needed.   It happens sometimes that the PV arrays can not put out their power ratings.

I think these may be DIY panels but from what I saw on Z's YT channel, he has done a really nice job !  Much nicer than any other home built PV array I have seen before.  Definitely a smart cookie !

We'll figure this out soon.  I know it.  More testing and data required is all.

As far as the Float to EQ sweeping issue, have you looked at the Temp-Comp VIEW to see if the target battery voltage is at the EQ setting ?  If it is just that it doesn't SWEEP when forcing an EQ from Float, (if that is how you are doing it), then that must be fixed.

Hi boB,   thank you again for your continued interest in decoding this.

In the test case,  here,   when in Legacy P&O,   the Classic has not swept to a new Vin.   It has not noticed any change in load requirement from that,   which was needed when it was in Float.   The Vin was about 112.XX,   when the Vin for Max Power was around about 90-ish V.   It was stuck at Vin of 112.X.   Manually reducing Vin to about 90 V or so (the curve is fairly flat at Vmp) increased the power from about 980 W,   to about 2650 W.   This was just for my test condition.

YES,   certainly it will be very helpful when z can provide another video of what happens when he tries to do an EQ in Legacy Mode.   His situation may be different.

AND,   his HomeMade PVs,   he has done a very good job on them.  Something that I would not be able to do here,   gotta have commercial PV,   or nothing.   He is certainly very smart,   just a bit frustrated with ALL of the capabilities that are built-into the Classic (and other MN products).   What other CC allows one to manually adjust the Vin in 1 V steps.   What a great function for debugging.  This plus ALL of the other functions  --  WbJr (at very low cost),   Diversion functions,   Temp comp limits,   Skip Days,  input and out current Limits (and very fast current Limiting,  at that),   and on and on.  PLUS,   this Forum,   where you and other Principals contribute,   regularly.   What other Company does this ?!  You and the MN team have built so many terrific products.

I did not want to be critical on any part of the Classic.   Many of us were begging for you to release the Classic,   knowing well that it was going to be the world's finest MPPT CC ever made !    And,   it is !

Anyway,  I gush too much,   but we cannot wait for the release of the Barcelona CC,   the Rosie,   B17,   and all of the other products that are in development.

Thanks,   boB,  for all that you do for we all.   Take care,   73    Vic