High Voltage Input AND Output MPPT

[ElectricSailor]

Hello, my company converts commercial vessels from diesel to electric. For example, we are contracted to convert the majority of short-run ferries in California.

There is a challenge we are trying to solve. I can't promise a big market yet, but given that, we also don't mind a large markup to get what we need developed, especially since what we need would be largely covered by grant funding.

Commercial electric propulsion vessels have a battery bank voltage between 500 and 1000 volts. Specifically, there is a glass bottom excursion vessel in southern California we are converting to electric with a beautfiul rooftop deck for solar. The electric propulsion system operates at 533V DC and that is the challenge is we need to output the solar charge such that the high voltage battery bank can charge from the solar.

 I saw that Midnite solar has up to 600V inputs. However, the highest I've seen on the output is 48V (which I imagine is actually 57V to have  voltage potential to a fully charged Li-ion battery bank at 534V if it is a 48V system). 

We are looking for an MPPT that can be used on a range of electric mobility solutions (cars, RVs, trucks and boats, etc) where the solar system and MPPT allow the solar to output to a high voltage DC system as one finds on EVs.  Specifically, with a 533V operating system, I would guess the MPPT would have to output somewhere between 600 and 630V.

It would get a significant amount of publicity because it would be demonstrating how solar can integrate into electric drive systems. Beyond the first vessel, we have 2-3 other vessels that will have solar arrays helping to power the electric drive system - but only if we can find a way to output the solar energy to high voltage DC systems.

We are extremely interested in this. We would not need a product solution until 2025, but we would need a soft committment and ballpark quote by the end of September, 2023. Let me know your thoughts. Is there anyone at Midnite who we could talk to about this idea?

[boB]

 
Good morning !   This is interesting.

I am not surprised this is happening.  Is this a mandate for California ?  Kind of like RVs will have to stop using generators and will have to use inverters and batteries in the next year or two ?

What power levels are we talking about here ?

boB

PS...

The only thing keeping MidNite from doing this would be resources.  If you can point us to some of that, we have the know how at least.

[ElectricSailor]

Great questions!

For boat #1, it would be with approximately 10 panels in series, 450V and 21 amps or 9.45kW system and the output is to a 533V system. Not that powerful. For boat #2 and #3 with this high voltage output solar, we don't have the solar area defined yet, but it is much bigger, let's say between 35 to 40 kW system with an output to a 622V system. To make it more economical, I'd say let's include 4 MPPTs for each of these bigger boats so that would make 9 MPPTs across the 3 boats as long as there was an ability to boost voltage as the 450V isn't high enough for either application.

The mandate in California is for short-run ferries to be electric by December 31, 2025 and "new and newly acquired" excursion vessels to be electric by December 31, 2024. There is no mandate for solar, just the emissions of the boat during operation. But, solar is a way of increasing range, decreasing operational energy costs and increasing the percentage of renewable energy consumed. Thus, solar is funded as part of any system installed to meet the mandates.

In terms of resources, I wish I could point you to sources. There is an NSF SBIR grant, but they will say this is an engineering effort not a research effort.  But, what I can say is that you could invoice the project 10 months before the equipment has to be delivered if that allowed the time and expense to build a charge controller to the spec requirements.

If Midnite Solar put a reasonable development cost into the initial product price and charged us that product price, would that work?  If a product retailed for $100 and MS had to put $200 of development cost into it to make it $300, that would be fine (obviously it is not $100, but trying to give an idea).

It might help to have a conversation about it. Would you be able to arrange that for this Friday or anytime next week?  Best might be emailing me at graham@greenyachtsales.com

In case you want more details, I don't wish the pain upon you of reading this, but here is how it will be funded - it allows for pre-commercial and early commercial products, but not R&D:  https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/low-carbon-transportation-investments-and-air-quality-improvement-program/low  (look at advaned technology demonstration and pilot projects funding about 3-4 down from the top)

[Barry Fields]

boB, please see private message
Barry

[littleharbor2]

Great questions!

For boat #1, it would be with approximately 10 panels in series, 450V and 21 amps or 9.45kW system and the output is to a 533V system. Not that powerful. For boat #2 and #3 with this high voltage output solar, we don't have the solar area defined yet, but it is much bigger, let's say between 35 to 40 kW system with an output to a 622V system. To make it more economical, I'd say let's include 4 MPPTs for each of these bigger boats so that would make 9 MPPTs across the 3 boats as long as there was an ability to boost voltage as the 450V isn't high enough for either application.

The mandate in California is for short-run ferries to be electric by December 31, 2025 and "new and newly acquired" excursion vessels to be electric by December 31, 2024. There is no mandate for solar, just the emissions of the boat during operation. But, solar is a way of increasing range, decreasing operational energy costs and increasing the percentage of renewable energy consumed. Thus, solar is funded as part of any system installed to meet the mandates.

In terms of resources, I wish I could point you to sources. There is an NSF SBIR grant, but they will say this is an engineering effort not a research effort.  But, what I can say is that you could invoice the project 10 months before the equipment has to be delivered if that allowed the time and expense to build a charge controller to the spec requirements.

If Midnite Solar put a reasonable development cost into the initial product price and charged us that product price, would that work?  If a product retailed for $100 and MS had to put $200 of development cost into it to make it $300, that would be fine (obviously it is not $100, but trying to give an idea).

It might help to have a conversation about it. Would you be able to arrange that for this Friday or anytime next week?  Best might be emailing me at graham@greenyachtsales.com

In case you want more details, I don't wish the pain upon you of reading this, but here is how it will be funded - it allows for pre-commercial and early commercial products, but not R&D:  https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/low-carbon-transportation-investments-and-air-quality-improvement-program/low  (look at advaned technology demonstration and pilot projects funding about 3-4 down from the top)

What distance is considered short run?

[boB]

What distance is considered short run?

Oh, around 50 feet or less ?  Battery cables 6 feet or less.

boB

[littleharbor2]

What distance is considered short run?

Oh, around 50 feet or less ?  Battery cables 6 feet or less.

boB

Thanks boB. i should have quoted the post above with my question. I was referring to short run ferries. Curious whether the Catalina Island ferries would fall into this class. They run large "clean" diesels now.

"The mandate in California is for short-run ferries to be electric by December 31, 2025 and "new and newly acquired" excursion vessels to be electric by December 31, 2024. There is no mandate for solar, just the emissions of the boat during operation. But, solar is a way of increasing range, decreasing operational energy costs and increasing the percentage of renewable energy consumed. Thus, solar is funded as part of any system installed to meet the mandates".

[boB]

What distance is considered short run?

Oh, around 50 feet or less ?  Battery cables 6 feet or less.

boB

Thanks boB. i should have quoted the post above with my question. I was referring to short run ferries. Curious whether the Catalina Island ferries would fall into this class. They run large "clean" diesels now.

"The mandate in California is for short-run ferries to be electric by December 31, 2025 and "new and newly acquired" excursion vessels to be electric by December 31, 2024. There is no mandate for solar, just the emissions of the boat during operation. But, solar is a way of increasing range, decreasing operational energy costs and increasing the percentage of renewable energy consumed. Thus, solar is funded as part of any system installed to meet the mandates".

Not 100% sure about the Catalina ferry but I would think that would be called a short run ferry.

Isn't is like, less than 20 minute ride ?

boB

[littleharbor2]

What distance is considered short run?

Oh, around 50 feet or less ?  Battery cables 6 feet or less.

boB

Thanks boB. i should have quoted the post above with my question. I was referring to short run ferries. Curious whether the Catalina Island ferries would fall into this class. They run large "clean" diesels now.

"The mandate in California is for short-run ferries to be electric by December 31, 2025 and "new and newly acquired" excursion vessels to be electric by December 31, 2024. There is no mandate for solar, just the emissions of the boat during operation. But, solar is a way of increasing range, decreasing operational energy costs and increasing the percentage of renewable energy consumed. Thus, solar is funded as part of any system installed to meet the mandates".

Not 100% sure about the Catalina ferry but I would think that would be called a short run ferry.

Isn't is like, less than 20 minute ride ?

boB

It's about an hour. 21 miles