Two Classics with Wind

[kitestrings]

Greetings,

Wild winds today.  A good check for the winter ahead.

We have two Classic 250's (CL415, CL418, Rev 1401 06/08/13) connected to a 15' axial wind turbine.  With help from Ryan & Roy some years ago, we were able to determine that OCP needs to be disabled to play well with wind.  The problem being that wind just changes to abruptly, and the result is Classic 'A'  can reach it's current limit and disconnect (go to 'Resting'), rather than staying active, at limit, and passing excess to the Classic 'B'.  With that change it has worked very well for us.

I had to power down one of the units a short while back, and I have a note to myself to ALWAYS repeat the instructions to disable OCP.  Basically there are two Hex value settings that we change.  The original instructions were to change the settings, then hold the shift key and hit enter to save.  It went on to say to do a reboot, but I had a handwritten note saying that this resulted in having to recheck, reset, the same settings.

I just noticed two things though... when I save the settings, it defaults the unit to have A-RST to ON/enabled, and it also defaults the unit from Master to Follow in the follow me settings.  If I change those settings it changes one of the OCP values that we just changed.

I must be missing something in how to properly save the settings we need (OCP OFF/Disabled, Classic A 'Master', A-RST disabled).  Maybe I'm not understand the 'reboot', which I thought to be just power cycling the unit.  Thanks for any help.

~ks

[boB]

Hey KS !   Nice to hear from you !
s
So, there is a guy near Spokane Washington that has a very similar setup as you have.

2 250V Classics, early Classics and one larger turbine with 2 Clippers.  Classic number 2 cuts in when needed and is done with the different wind power curves.

As for saving those TWEAKS values, it SHOULD just be the same as saving any other menu....   Maybe what you might try is to make the changes as you described and then go to some other menu that says  "Data saved to Classic" or whatever it says when you press ENTER.

How the Classic saves values is that it takes ALL saveable nonvolatile setting numbers and reads/saves all in one swell foop.  Fell swoop ?  😁

Then reset the Classic and see if that makes it remember those settings.    The A-Rst does reboot the Classic at midnight so if it doesn't reload those numbers and settings, then maybe there is some incompatibility with those older Classics ?   BUT I don't see why that should be ?  It is the same processor and same memory etc.

What is the software revision of your Classic and MNGP ?

boB

[kitestrings]

Hi boB,

I confess I haven’t done any recent firmware updates, largely because we haven’t problems (…if it ain’t broke, right).  The Classics are rev: 1401, 06/08/13; the MNGP is rev: 1370, 04/08/13.

I’ve tried several combinations of saves, from other screens, as you’ve described and re-powering of the units.  It seems to be a little bit of “whack-a-mole” right now.  If I change one thing something else also changes.  The two fields we’re attempting to alter are:

4185 â€" we want this to have a value of 4824 (originally this value was 4864)
4186 â€" we want this to have a value of 0000 (originally this value was 0040)

If I make the changes and then reboot, it shifts 4185 to a value of 4860, and it enables A-RST

If I make the changes and then disable A-RST, it shifts 4185 to a value of 4820.

A-RST is undesirable for two reasons: 1) it resets the Aux settings to Off after midnight, in our case this allows the turbine to start-up, even if I’ve manually shut it down (one Aux relay controls a furling actuator, the other is connecting the load bank).  It doesn’t lose the Aux settings, but it changes the state they are left in, and 2) If it happens to be windy at midnight, we don’t want any, even short duration, disconnect from the turbine.

Thanks for looking at this.  I know we are a small group (2 or 3 I suspect ;>].

[boB]

Here are  my notes from long time ago and definitions for when using the MNGP to adjust register address 4185

Remember that anything starting with  //  or inside /*  something */  is a comment.   

You can see where I changed or moved some definitions.
Also these are bits in hexadecimal so you will have to convert and combine to get the decimal number but the
MNGP modbus editor allows the display as hexadecimal which should be easier to convert to regular brain mode.


Also, the degrees units F/C   choice never did work.  Still in C



*****************************************************************************
4185  EnableFlags2

#define DCclipperEn                 0x0001  //4-16-2012  DC Clipper slower PWM
#define DegreesFflag                0x0002  //8-6-2013 Degreess F if set

  /* Following flags were in EnableFlags 4186 before 11-8-2012 and moved here */

#define AutoDlyReset                0x0004  //WAS DHCPenable then  EtherAutoRst
#define PvPartialShadeEn            0x0008
/////#define ChrgStageFollowEn      0x0010    //ChrgStageFollowEn  10-7-2012
#define WasteNotPkRespF             0x0010    //WasteNotPkRespF  11-19-2012
#define BattTempNetEn               0x0020  //If high, use networked temp sensor
#define DefCon4ErrEn2               0x0040  //OCP ENABLE IN ADDITION to EnableFlags 1
#define PwmLowMaxFlag               0x0080   //Low Max is Enabled (X-play sorta)
#define VbatRegSlowFlag             0x0100  //Tell States to regulate on Avg Vbatt

//#define SMAmodeOn                 0x0200  // using  EnableFlags3 & SMAmodeF  instead
#define EndAmpWbJr                  0x0200  //If 1, using Aux 2 WhizBang Jr. 9-14-2013

#define BumpWindI                   0x0400  //Bump wind table current up or down
#define DivrsnAbsEqTmrEn            0x0800  //Diversion runs Absorb/Bulk/Eq Timers  LOE is ENABLED

#define StayOnWhileZeroEn           0x1000  //Insomnia
#define VpvTargetCmdEn              0x2000  //If set, user can adjust Target V in U-Set mode
#define LogAtNiteEn                 0x4000  //Enable logging at nite or while resting

  /* Previous flags were in EnableFlags 11-8-2012 */

//#define Routing2En                0x0004  //10-30-2012 NOW EnableFlags 11-8-2012
#define WindSynchEnF                0x8000  // 11-4-2012  Wind Synch enable WAS 0x0008

*****************************************************************************************

[kitestrings]

Hm.  I'll have to study this a bit more.

I was just trying one other approach.  I changed 4185 to 4824, and saved.  Then I tried turning off A-RST from the local app, and "sent to controller".  This time 4185 changed to 4128.  If I change it back, then it Enables A-RST again.  If I could just get it to turn off A-RST without affecting the OCP defeat.

What does the reset in Bully menu do (Local App)?

[kitestrings]

Just wanted to take a minute and thank boB and Ryan for talking me off the ledge here.  I was concerned that I may have been missing a step somehow not getting the proper settings set, and saved.  But, it was a case of "Wemberly" (Wemberly Worried, Kevin Henkes) at the wheel.  As suggested, once the settings are saved, disabling A-RST, and re-setting the follow me preferences does not change this.  The Hex bits are apparently additive so the value shifts based on the subsequent items being turned on or off.

Anyway, it is extremely windy tonight, here is a pic of exactly what we want to happen.  The first controller (‘Kitewind’, on the left), goes until it reaches current limit, in this case 40A, you can see the amber current limit on, but holds at that threshold, and politely passes the remainder to the second (‘Kitewin2’, on the right).  You'll note also that there is an amber LED behind the grill on the Kitewind.  This is the load bank (homemade 'clipper') being triggered off Aux2.

[boB]

Yeah, the the bits do add.   A  0x0001  and  0x0003 (hexadecimal)  would be the same as  a binary 11

I just noticed from your previous 2 posts ago that you are viewing modbus editor I think in decimal mode.

Changing 4185  from 4824 to 4128   means  4185 went from  0x12D8   to   0x1020  which reset bits  EndAmpWbJr, PvPartialShadeEn, DefCon4ErrEn2, WasteNotPkRespF  if I have converted decimal properly. 

DefCon4ErrEn2   is the OCP bit which should be 1 still otherwise you will see the OCP is OFF message.   Actually, now that I think of it and if I am remembering correctly, BOTH of the OCP OFF modbus register flags have to be off in order for OCP to REALLY be off.  I think this just displays the message instead of actually turning off that over current protection in your case.   I did that so that you really have to change things more to disable that protection.

Not sure if WasteNotPkRespF  even does anything ?  Can't remember.

I am not sure how the 4185 register changed but just turning off A-Rst ?    IN fact, looking at my list for register address 4185, A-Rst is NOT even in that list !

#define DefCon4ErrEn2    0x0040   in register address 4185  wants to be  set (1) which will add the decimal value of 64 to 4185's value.

Now I will have to look at this a bit closer to see where A-Rst actually is located in the modbus register scheme of things.

But the wind is looking good except for that OCP is off thing. 

Oh, and "Bully" mode in the Local App ?   I have heard of this but I don't know what it is !  Oh, I "think" that it may force the Classic to reboot.

boB

[kitestrings]

A bit of history â€" you may get a kick out of this…

When we first set it up, the two controllers did not play well at all together.  What would happen is the first one would load up, and when we reached the current limit, it would disconnect & go to Resting.  The turbine rpm and voltage then rise very abruptly and we would get “OCP error” messages on both units.  It all happened very fast, but I eventually recorded it on video and shared it with Ryan & Roy.

We had plans back then to bring the turbine down for some other tweaks, so I made plans to spin it up in my shop under more controlled conditions (see attached pic).  I programmed a lower set of curves, and dropped the current limit.  We spun it up with no changes, and recorded the same errors at limit.  Then, we disabled OCP, and hallelujah, we reached and held at current limit and started to pass load to the second controller.

[kitestrings]

boB & all,

Slightly different question on the same system.  I've noticed after a particularly windy/gusty period that we sometimes record peaks that don't seem valid.  I have the first controller current limited at 40A.  So peak, instantaneous output when I'm watching it might be around 2,200 watts (~94V in, 40A out, 51-54V).

When I looked at the logs for yesterday, a very windy day, we logged 6.9 kWh, 152.9 peak Vin, 55.1V peak battery, 4,231 watts, 49.1C max FET temp.  Usually our peak reads will be ~2.0 kW-2.8 kW.  I'm just wondering if the 4,231 w is a valid read, or something of concern.  If it is correct, we'd have to be pulling near 70A on that controller.  Mind you, any peak reading is likely very short duration, as we are furling, introducing diversion load, loading to a 3-ph resistive load bank (homemade 'clipper'), and ultimately shutdown above sustained input currently at 118V in via a furling actuator.

What I've also observed, is that occasionally the status screen will momentarily display an anomaly, where it might show 120V for example as the battery voltage - no way, no how - but, this is gone in an instant; clearly a glitch, and it may not happen again for days.

I'd generally thought that 40A was a pretty conservative setting, and I've never seen high temps.  Sustained winds with say ~1 kW output, will cycle the fan, but I've watched it go to 48/49C, then it drops to 45C, shuts off & repeats.  Haven't smoked anything all these years, but it just got me wondering if readings like these could be valid or not.  Thoughts?

[boB]

WoW !   Showing 120V on the battery for a moment isn't a good thing BUT MAYBE that was a quirk mixup and showing the INPUT voltage for a moment ?  Would 120V have possibly ben from the wind at that time ?

Obviously, your battery voltage did NOT go that high.

From your normal operating numbers, I would think that the peak/maximum powers the Classic thought it saw is probably bogus but not 100% sure, unless you had a real short hurricane moment and  protections did not respond properly

I would just watch it and see if you catch how LONG a time it is seeing high watts.

boB

[kitestrings]

Ya boB, I'd have to agree.  Yesterday was a pretty windy day too, complete with a few rough spots.  We logged 5.9 kWh, 92.7 Vin, 2,407 watts peak, 58.8V battery.  These are pretty typical numbers.

Yes, 120Vin is quite normal, possible.

Occasionally there can be a momentary comm's gap, when the instead of flashing "Bulk MPPT" (something like that), it displays "got comm?" (or no comm, again something to this affect).  Nothing stops functioning of course, ...but I wonder if could be when it picks things back up?

I watched, and recorded, some wind events in the past, and never seen peaks that high... they just, on occasion, land in the logged peaks.  I'm not too worried; just curious.

[boB]

Agreed !    Yes, the Got Comm ?  for a moment has to do with the network temporarily cacking with the MNGP and
the MNGP timing for the lack of a good comm packet taking too long.

There is a LOT of stuff going on inside the Classic and MNGP as far as software.  The most important things the software must do without issues is not overcharging the batteries and not blowing up the Classic's power circuitry.  Difficult to makeeverything absolutely perfect.  It's also hard to find good help these days !   

boB