Author Topic: Starlink  (Read 574 times)

LilMT

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Starlink
« on: February 04, 2022, 12:14:23 PM »
So, my Starlink is up and running and Hughes net is officially set aside.

I am going to try connect up my Classic 250 to MyMidnite this weekend and see what happens.

I know there has been problems with satellite providers and I was just wondering if anyone has tried with Starlink?

Has anyone tries Starlink to see if it works and if so, any pointers?

Thanks,
LilMT
Thanks,
LilMT

Classic 250, 3s2p Trina Solar 405watt, 8 Renogy 200ah for 48V 400ah, Magnasine 4448 inverter.

FNG

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2022, 06:32:58 AM »
We do have customers using Starlink successfully

Ryan

LilMT

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2022, 10:50:09 AM »
Thanks,  worked like a charm.

:)

LilMT
Thanks,
LilMT

Classic 250, 3s2p Trina Solar 405watt, 8 Renogy 200ah for 48V 400ah, Magnasine 4448 inverter.

boB

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2022, 10:53:28 PM »

Yes, thank goodness for Low Earth Orbit !

Too bad all of these satellites block a lot of astronomy.

Can't have everything !

boB
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mcsarge

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2022, 10:18:06 AM »
Hi,

I have a follow up on this and a question. We used Starlink all summer and it work perfectly to post to mymidnite and access the system and all my devices, but once we turned it off and switched back to using a cellular connection mymidnite stopped getting updated.

I can connect to the Classic with the localapp (using the VPN that my cradlepoint sets up.) I can use nmap from my Raspberry Pi on the same network as the Classic to see that mymidnite port 502 is open, but for some reason the system will not update any more. I called support and they said that there might be some timing issue. I have rebooted the system, but I cannot power down as the system is on an island in the middle of nowhere. Any suggestions?
Off Grid Island in Ontario Canada (Beaverstone Bay)
Primary: Classic 150 + wbjr; 3s2p HES 270watt
Winter: SolarBoost 50 MPPT (into wbjr); 2 x Sharp NE-80EJEA 80watt
Pack: 4s2p ROLLS S6-460AGM 6V for 24V pack
Inverter/Charger: Trace DR2424
Call Sign: KG4EUF

LilMT

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2022, 10:44:20 AM »
Not certain what it is but here are a few ideas.

I know when we were on Hughes Net, I could not get it work but when we went to Starlink, it was working fine.  My guess is that it is a latency issue.  Once MyMidnite receives the actual packet, the timestamps are so far out that the server then refuses them (security protocol to prevent man in the middle attacks).  Would you have any way to check to see what kind of latency you are getting to MM2 via your cell network?

I know you mentioned that you checked ports via your local network, and you mentioned that you have a VPN.  I would suggest checking the ports all the way through to the outside if you can.  Perhaps you have already looked at this and I apologize if I missed it in you post.

I have to really dug into how the classic actually posts to MM2 but I do know that CGNAT has some drawbacks, some carriers use it as a security feature and actually restrict certain forms of traffic that crosses it.  If that is the case, it may be an issue with the carrier.

Someday I may have to through a packet sniffer on my network and see what is really happening during a classic post to MM2.  But my initial guess is that latency is the killer. When you use the cellular network to make calls, is there any significant talk/receive lag?

I know there are some folks on here that are more familiar with the backend at MM2 and perhaps they will chime in.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Additional information and a few things to test can be found here:

https://mymidnite2.com/?q=node/17

It is the FQ for MM2.



« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 12:48:22 PM by LilMT »
Thanks,
LilMT

Classic 250, 3s2p Trina Solar 405watt, 8 Renogy 200ah for 48V 400ah, Magnasine 4448 inverter.

mcsarge

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2022, 01:38:55 PM »
Thanks for the information - I have the time sync problem (does not adjust for Daylight etc.) and I can't fix it from the Local App, but that has never caused this before.

The system is in Canada and we did switch cell carriers from T-Mobile (using whatever system was available) to KooDo, which is a Telus pay as you go deal. I am thinking maybe they are blocking that traffic, but I can't see the logs on the Classic to tell what is happening. I could probably create a system wide VPN to pipe all traffic through to get around this, but I am too scared to set something up and then find I have lost all communication for the rest of the winter, there is no-one there to push a button or flip a switch). I have ClassicMQTT running on my Pi and populating a local MQTT server that is available over the VPN to a Graphana instance I have running on Azure, so I can tell what is happening on the island. But if I have to shut everything down but the bare minimum to conserve power, it would be nice if I could get the mymidnight working so I can see if the main panels are still covered with snow or not.
Off Grid Island in Ontario Canada (Beaverstone Bay)
Primary: Classic 150 + wbjr; 3s2p HES 270watt
Winter: SolarBoost 50 MPPT (into wbjr); 2 x Sharp NE-80EJEA 80watt
Pack: 4s2p ROLLS S6-460AGM 6V for 24V pack
Inverter/Charger: Trace DR2424
Call Sign: KG4EUF

mcsarge

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2022, 01:56:29 PM »
Good News,

After I described above I thought about my Cradlepoint system. It is really nice and I can't say enought good thing about it and it has a setting that allows you to have "Secure Internet Access" for your device (and any device using your device to reach the internet) and so I thought, if I do that it is like setting up a VPN for all traffic. I turned on the setting and now I am posting to mymidnight with no problem at all.

Conclusion - I think Koodo (or Telus) is filtering the traffic over their connection and so stopping the Classic from posting. So anyone else using Koodo in Canada may be having the same problem I was having.

Matt
Off Grid Island in Ontario Canada (Beaverstone Bay)
Primary: Classic 150 + wbjr; 3s2p HES 270watt
Winter: SolarBoost 50 MPPT (into wbjr); 2 x Sharp NE-80EJEA 80watt
Pack: 4s2p ROLLS S6-460AGM 6V for 24V pack
Inverter/Charger: Trace DR2424
Call Sign: KG4EUF

LilMT

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2022, 01:59:17 PM »
Loss of comms would be scary and highly possible when setting up a VPN.

Regrettably most the potential fixes do require a reboot of the classic.

The time on the classic should not be an issue, Mine doesn't adjust for DST either until I adjust it.  :)

I will continue to contemplate this and if I can come with anything I will post it.

Bet wishes.
Thanks,
LilMT

Classic 250, 3s2p Trina Solar 405watt, 8 Renogy 200ah for 48V 400ah, Magnasine 4448 inverter.

LilMT

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2022, 02:00:54 PM »
Absolutely fantastic. 

Great job.


Good News,

After I described above I thought about my Cradlepoint system. It is really nice and I can't say enought good thing about it and it has a setting that allows you to have "Secure Internet Access" for your device (and any device using your device to reach the internet) and so I thought, if I do that it is like setting up a VPN for all traffic. I turned on the setting and now I am posting to mymidnight with no problem at all.

Conclusion - I think Koodo (or Telus) is filtering the traffic over their connection and so stopping the Classic from posting. So anyone else using Koodo in Canada may be having the same problem I was having.

Matt
Thanks,
LilMT

Classic 250, 3s2p Trina Solar 405watt, 8 Renogy 200ah for 48V 400ah, Magnasine 4448 inverter.

boB

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2022, 11:36:41 PM »

Conclusion - I think Koodo (or Telus) is filtering the traffic over their connection and so stopping the Classic from posting. So anyone else using Koodo in Canada may be having the same problem I was having.

Matt

The Classic calls into My Midnite as if it were a web browser so that you do not have to set up any port forwarding...

I would not think that Telus would block those kinds of transactions because all of the other web based appliances would not work.

But, I don't know everything so there may be something to what you say ?   I would hope not though.

boB
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LilMT

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2022, 11:30:51 AM »
I tend to agree.  If the Classic is simply using an HTTP or HTPPS post or put to send the data up, then there would be no firewall involvement as those ports should be open by default for the entire route.  Otherwise, there would be no web traffic at all.

If the Craddlepoint setting for secure access is setting up a VPN tunnel to a remote server, I think that would eliminate the idea that it is a latency issue since that would most likely be adding hops not removing them.

That brings me back to Carrier Grade Network Address Translation (CGNAT)

My understanding is that CGNAT is very similar to normal NAT. As a packet leaves from the local network, it gets wrapped for the public network with all of the information needed to get to the destination and back to the source.  This can happen many times in CGNAT with the originating packet getting wrapped more and more each time.

The problem can come in when(if) the wrapping actually adjusts one of the underlying packet headers, this shouldn't happen, but it can.  It can also be a problem if the destination server cannot unwrap all of the underlying wraps.

I would tend to think that it is the first issue though (the originating packet is getting "adjusted" somehow and the destination server is not able to deal with it), since a VPN tunnel with encryption should maintain the originating packet until it meets the destination VPN host and then is sent along from there decrypted and unaffected.

All of this is purely an educated guess though.  My background is in the physical networks (cable and fiber) and in IT management not the logical side of networks.

Glad you got it working though.

:)
Thanks,
LilMT

Classic 250, 3s2p Trina Solar 405watt, 8 Renogy 200ah for 48V 400ah, Magnasine 4448 inverter.

mcsarge

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2022, 10:47:09 AM »
So,

All continues to work using the built in "Secure" mode of the Cradlepoint. BTW, I picked up my Cradlepoint unit (a current model) for $150 on eBay and then I pay the yearly license fee and it is the best money I have ever spent. It is rock solid and made for continuous operation and has so many fail safes and modes it is hard to mess it up. And I have gotten so much great support even though I only have 2 licenses. They spent ages helping me with a Starlink problem (using a wired connection to Starlink would cause the Cradlepoint to periodically lose it's DHCP reservation - Starlink's fault).

I am betting that since Koodo is a pay as you go service of Telus, it may use lots of things to make it cheap to operate - remember when I was using T-Mobile to Telus, there was no issue at all. So the only way to tell this is to have somebody at Midnite Solar look at the logs for my POSTs when I am not on the VPN and compare them to the POSTs when I am on it. My guess is that you are right, somebody twiddled a bit along the way...

Matt
Off Grid Island in Ontario Canada (Beaverstone Bay)
Primary: Classic 150 + wbjr; 3s2p HES 270watt
Winter: SolarBoost 50 MPPT (into wbjr); 2 x Sharp NE-80EJEA 80watt
Pack: 4s2p ROLLS S6-460AGM 6V for 24V pack
Inverter/Charger: Trace DR2424
Call Sign: KG4EUF

boB

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Re: Starlink
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2022, 06:18:19 PM »

BTW, the Classic's communications from Classic to server is secure.

More than I would like as it made it more complicated but when it works, it works fine.

boB
K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me