Question for Midnite Solar execs ! IS the Classic Line being retired or what ?

[Steve_S]

Straight to the Point and provide an HONEST Answer, no doublespeak !

The Classic Series is a Great Product.  Made in USA "Properly" and is a Premium Product.
-  Came with Firmware update capacity.
-  Came with Local App, Web App functionality.
-  ModBus Access for extrernal apps / tools, a Big Bonus.

Firmware Revision
Classic, Classic SL & Classic Lite Charge Controllers
Firmware Revision Number: Rev 2193 For Windows
Firmware Revision Date: Feb 6, 2018
----------------
No Firmware or Local App softare updates SINCE !
Excuse: Focussing on "New Product".
----------------
THE QUESTION:  It appears for Every Intent & Purpose these are being shoved to the Legacy Bin in favour of the new Goodies which are even more Costly (DIY Stuff excluded).  Web-forum support and zippo for software & firmware.
Are they being Grand-fathered out or what ? 
Just dumping New Old Stock till it's gone ?

BE HONEST, No Circular Babble.

With all due respect from an Extremely PO's Owner of Midnite Product.
Hint:  Sledge Hammer at ready !  (more than just the hardware if you get the drift)

[ClassicCrazy]

I get your question.
But curious - what updates would you want to see on the Classic to bring it more up to date ?

Larry

[Steve_S]

ClassicCrazy, I have a great deal of respect for you and all the help you provide to the forum members here, but are you a "Midnite executive" or what.

[ClassicCrazy]

ha ha no - just a user like you.
Larry

[boB]

Steve_S

No, the Classic is not being phased out.  Production works on them every single day
Still being ordered and built.

We are working on updates for the Classic too.  Just slowly is all.

Actually, there is an update for the MNGP that shouldn't be too far off.  I think it was given a link on this forum a year or two ago but was never put into production. That version is being tested to make sure it is OK.

I will see if I can find that link.  The Bluetooth app is also being worked on.  Kind of like pulling teeth but it is coming as well.

boB

[ClassicCrazy]

Steve_S

No, the Classic is not being phased out.  Production works on them every single day
Still being ordered and built.

We are working on updates for the Classic too.  Just slowly is all.

Actually, there is an update for the MNGP that shouldn't be too far off.  I think it was given a link on this forum a year or two ago but was never put into production. That version is being tested to make sure it is OK.

I will see if I can find that link.  The Bluetooth app is also being worked on.  Kind of like pulling teeth but it is coming as well.

boB

Was it this one Bob ?
http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.php?topic=4212.msg41349#msg41349
If so I have been using it no problems here .
Larry

[boB]

Larry, that may very well be !

I will look at my code history and check back

🌛🤡🌜

[Steve_S]

Introduce CHAFF to deflect the question asked.
Actions speak volumes, Words mean squat without action.
Pseudo excuses = useless verbal diarrhea.
1st Post was at 17:20 EST, Sledge flies at 17:20 EST today.  (24hrs)
* A reasonable answer could result in a further 24hr extension.

What changes are NEEDED (seriously) ?
At minimum Voltage Resolution MUST be to 2 Decimal Points, *Lithium is NOT brute force FLA etc, precision IS required.
LFP for example has a Working Voltage Range (per cell 3.000-3.400 - THAT IS 0.400V for all of it) Li-Ion Chemistries are also picky.
The Working Voltage is what delivers the actual AH of the cells.  NOT the Full Voltage Range from 2.500 to 3.650Vpc.

- Classics, WizBang etc NEED that accuracy.  3 Decimal Accuracy is most unlikely for your gear.
- Offsets for when Charging from SCC and when No Charging is ongoing - They ARE Different !

I could go on but no point eh... Hijack Deflection Rules RIGHT !

[boB]

Here is most likely some more verbal diarrhea.....   Might not make you happy, Steve.  Sorry about that.   Who is CHAFF ?

Well, the most important update that should happen, IMHO, is to stop charging at a settable low battery temperature.  The BMS should also cut charging off at low temperature though.

After that, it is mostly just annoyances like when the siren goes off when hitting the ENTER on the MNGP and some data logging.

Also, the Bluetooth dongle and phone app need to be finished.

As far as more battery voltage resolution, that most likely will not happen but it might be capable if the readings are slowed down to average in-between the 100 mV values that are limited by the A/D converter.

WB Jr. current resolution with a 500 mA 50 mV shunt is 78mA at best.  Your SHUNT is not necessarily going to be that good anyway.

The newer products may be better than 100mV accuracy.  I know that the internal registers and comms are good for 10.0 mV 

BUT voltage drops and ripple are going to screw up any of that high resolution even if it can be measured.

"The Working Voltage is what delivers the actual AH of the cells. "

Cannot measure Amp-Hours (~~SOC%) by measuring voltage.  Doesn't mean a lot for LiFePo4 

Let me know what companies give you 0.xx voltage and 0.xxx current resolution ?  I am unaware.

boB

PS...  As far as engineers on products, I would like to point out that some companies have more engineers than MNS have.
For instance,  Apple has MANY THOUSANDS of engineers.  MNS has maybe 23 engineers.

[FNG]

Straight to the Point and provide an HONEST Answer, no doublespeak !

The Classic Series is a Great Product.  Made in USA "Properly" and is a Premium Product.
-  Came with Firmware update capacity.
-  Came with Local App, Web App functionality.
-  ModBus Access for extrernal apps / tools, a Big Bonus.

Firmware Revision
Classic, Classic SL & Classic Lite Charge Controllers
Firmware Revision Number: Rev 2193 For Windows
Firmware Revision Date: Feb 6, 2018
----------------
No Firmware or Local App softare updates SINCE !
Excuse: Focussing on "New Product".
----------------
THE QUESTION:  It appears for Every Intent & Purpose these are being shoved to the Legacy Bin in favour of the new Goodies which are even more Costly (DIY Stuff excluded).  Web-forum support and zippo for software & firmware.
Are they being Grand-fathered out or what ? 
Just dumping New Old Stock till it's gone ?

BE HONEST, No Circular Babble.

With all due respect from an Extremely PO's Owner of Midnite Product.
Hint:  Sledge Hammer at ready !  (more than just the hardware if you get the drift)

Steve,
You make a valid point on Midnite dropping the ball on sustaining engineering. I can tell you I interviewed an Engineer a ways back and he is working on the classic now as a sustaining engineer so please reach out to me with any suggestions or needs so I can make sure they are on the list ryan@midnitesolar.com

As for monitoring we have really dropped the ball on that one no arguments from me, I wish I had better news but currently it is setting sort of stale. We do have a blue tooth dongle and cell app about 80% complete but that is taking way longer than hoped due to distractions from the new products. I would love to find some one that wanted to work on that project also. As for My Midnite and the Local App both are running long in the tooth on out of date software platforms and will need a re write. What I am hoping is we can tie the classic int othe new cloud based stuff we do for the new system and then we could have a cool cell app, even data available for those who want to roll there own.

Hopefully we will see some forward momentum on the classic soon and thank you for rattling our cage we need that from time to time to remember we can not leave older products behind

Ryan

[Steve_S]

Temp reprieve granted. (being gracious) but now in Full Curmudgeon Mode.

---  I started programing in 1989, several languages forward.  Even wrote custom PC Bios for the Gov't of Canada (Secured BIOS) in Assembler and a crap load more...  EE's are CRAP Programmers !  You need Real Programmers ! with years of Real World Exp.

To BoB
- :  WHAT IS CHAFF !  Ask any Airforce Pilot or Google it.
- :  Samlex, Victron and Several more resolve to 2 Decimals AND are Accurate.  A "Respectable DVOM" Fluke & Higher Level Chinese also do so, even some advanced coulomb counters...   Get to KNOW your competition and get out of the MicroCosm.
- :  Virtually every resectable BMS handles cells @ 0.000 Accuracy and presents Battery voltages @ 0.00 accuracy.
- : Blue Tooth & Phone App, how nice.  Data Access to external apps and NO DEPENDENCE to Cloud Base.  Offgridders, in general, do NOT leave Sat Modems & Routers up 7/24/365 Nor Cell Data Connections !  REAL-WORLD Double-Check!!

-------------------------------------------- for FNG Below (reason for Temp Reprieve)
I know Ryan, he should remember me too.
Posting his e-mall addy will result in spam bots from site scrapers... FIX THAT

I interact with several vendors closely and WHEN THEY start asking me about this "stuff" I can only tell them what is obvious for all to see, a few are trying to dump the Midnite classics Inventory, and two that are eliminating the entire Midnite Line.  There will obviously many more kicking around.  I will not say who, that's up to you to get Vendor Feedback and HOPE for their honesty.

Cloud & Rest is explained above.
Rattling Cage, hahaha.... Try "Cage about to be pushed over a cliff" more like, and it is Self-Injury for the most part.

Chew on it and really engage Critical Thinking.

[Steve_S]

So That's That !

I feel bad for you FNG, I imagine a moment of actual "Integrity" probably got your Ears Boxed or a Slap Down.
That also speaks volumes all on its own.

Midnite... Just how many Classics have you shoved out the door in the past couple of years ?
Good Luck, hope you have Lawyers on Retainer as Litigation from some may occur & evolve into a Class Action situation.
I won't be one of those, fortunately, my time on this rock is very very near.

[Steve_S]

Definition of Executive
in American English
ADJECTIVE
1.  of, capable of, or concerned with, carrying out duties, functions, etc. or managing affairs, as in a business organization
2.  empowered and required to administer (laws, government affairs, etc.); administrative see also legislative, judicial
3.  of administrative or managerial personnel or functions
NOUN
4.  the person, group of people, or branch of government empowered and required to administer the laws and affairs of a nation
5. any person whose function is to administer or manage affairs, as of a corporation, school, etc.
Webster’s New World College Dictionary, 4th Edition. Copyright © 2010 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. All rights reserved.
SOURCE:  https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/executive
-----------------------------
This means someone like The Company President and Upper Management!  Not anyone outside of that Circle.

Post ONE was Clear & to the Point, nothing to misunderstand, reinterpret or Mutilate as occured above by NON-EXEC Staffers.

I LOCKED the thread on Friday as the Weekenders would have piled a bunch of twaddle and NONE being Robin or Similar.  I have opened it FOR TODAY to allow Proper Response from the proper Person(s) ONLY !
I am UNLOCKING it NOW as Midnite Office hours are 09:00 PST

A Website "General Statement" should be added to address:
- Product Lifecycle (All of the Solar Controllers etc, Old to New.
- Peoduct Support Lifecycle for ALL including Hardware, Firmware & Software.
- How "When & If" product lifecycle will be dealt with at End of Lifecycle.
----------------------
FINAL NOTE:
No tricky sneaky editing of what was posted !
Deleting this thread will most certainly have repercussions from a Broad Range of people & businesses.

Interpretations, theorization, conjecture by anyone outside of the Executive Management @ Midnite Solar is neither wanted or desired.  To be Absolutely Blunt & CLEAR, No Bulloney No Politicalization NONE of that Nonsense !  If you don't like it, Move Along. 

Midnite Systems Owners & Vendors want the straight from the Horses Mouth answers and are standing by.

Thank you for your Cooperation

[FNG]

THE QUESTION:  It appears for Every Intent & Purpose these are being shoved to the Legacy Bin in favour of the new Goodies which are even more Costly (DIY Stuff excluded).  Web-forum support and zippo for software & firmware.
Are they being Grand-fathered out or what ? 
Just dumping New Old Stock till it's gone ?

Definition of Executive
in American English
ADJECTIVE
1.  of, capable of, or concerned with, carrying out duties, functions, etc. or managing affairs, as in a business organization
2.  empowered and required to administer (laws, government affairs, etc.); administrative see also legislative, judicial
3.  of administrative or managerial personnel or functions
NOUN
4.  the person, group of people, or branch of government empowered and required to administer the laws and affairs of a nation
5. any person whose function is to administer or manage affairs, as of a corporation, school, etc.
Webster’s New World College Dictionary, 4th Edition. Copyright © 2010 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. All rights reserved.
SOURCE:  https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/executive
-----------------------------
This means someone like The Company President and Upper Management!  Not anyone outside of that Circle.

Post ONE was Clear & to the Point, nothing to misunderstand, reinterpret or Mutilate as occured above by NON-EXEC Staffers.

I LOCKED the thread on Friday as the Weekenders would have piled a bunch of twaddle and NONE being Robin or Similar.  I have opened it FOR TODAY to allow Proper Response from the proper Person(s) ONLY !
I am UNLOCKING it NOW as Midnite Office hours are 09:00 PST

A Website "General Statement" should be added to address:
- Product Lifecycle (All of the Solar Controllers etc, Old to New.
- Peoduct Support Lifecycle for ALL including Hardware, Firmware & Software.
- How "When & If" product lifecycle will be dealt with at End of Lifecycle.
----------------------
FINAL NOTE:
No tricky sneaky editing of what was posted !
Deleting this thread will most certainly have repercussions from a Broad Range of people & businesses.

Interpretations, theorization, conjecture by anyone outside of the Executive Management @ Midnite Solar is neither wanted or desired.  To be Absolutely Blunt & CLEAR, No Bulloney No Politicalization NONE of that Nonsense !  If you don't like it, Move Along.

Midnite Systems Owners & Vendors want the straight from the Horses Mouth answers and are standing by.

Thank you for your Cooperation

So first the questions:
It appears for Every Intent & Purpose these are being shoved to the Legacy Bin in favour of the new Goodies which are even more Costly (DIY Stuff excluded). 
No not at all, we have a large number of employees and inventory that build Classics every day.


Web-forum support and zippo for software & firmware.
I am not sure I follow the "Web-forum support" we continue to support Classics through Phone calls, Emails, Online ticket submissions etc. Maybe you are referencing the actual forum, and most of our employees do not watch the forum if that's what you are referencing? As for Firmware you are correct that we haven't released an update in several years although that doesn't necessarily indicate a dead product it can also indicate a mature product. That said we have a running list of items to work on and make the Classic even better than it is. We have a sustaining engineer working on it and hopefully will see some beta firmware in the near future. I did ask you (or anyone else) that has issues with current Classic code to email me the issues they see so I can add them to the list.

Are they being Grand-fathered out or what ? 
Nope, We have no plans now or in the future to sunset the Classic, Actually the opposite is true we are close to releasing the Blue Tooth dongle and Cell app, We are working on a Modbus to Canbus translator to make the Classic integrate into the new Midnite systems like the Rosie inverter and Hawke's Bay MPPT for example. We are also putting in place the path for the new online monitoring as well.

Just dumping New Old Stock till it's gone ?
Nope, we stock about a months' worth of Classics, As I mentioned above, we build them daily 5 days a week. If you, or anyone, is in the area and would like a tour of the facility and to see what we do feel free to email me ryan@midnitesolar.com and if we have an "Executive" available we will set it up

This means someone like The Company President and Upper Management!  Not anyone outside of that Circle.

Post ONE was Clear & to the Point, nothing to misunderstand, reinterpret or Mutilate as occured above by NON-EXEC Staffers.
I only saw one person post that doesn't fit this description. boB is one of the owners of the company and I am the manager of all customer service, RMA dept, Order entry, Sales and Support so we may both qualify as "Executives"


In closing, I am not sure what I can do for you more than I have mentioned but I am sure happy to assist anyhow I can, You can reach out to me here or by email ryan@midnitesolar.com. I truly welcome all suggestions on Classic updates (And any other products for that matter) from anyone.

Ryan
Customer Service Manager
ryan@midnitesolar.com
360-403-7207 XT151

[kitestrings]

Just another low-level Classic user here...

I don't know the history here, but our experience with MS has been nothing short of top-notch.  I like that it is made in America, but mainly purchased the Classics (2) because they had more features, flexibility and were the only CC at the time that worked with wind.  Yes, there are bigger companies, with lots more engineers, but we've always gotten prompt responses to questions, issues, and our system has worked well for nearly ten years now.  IMO MS rocks!