Designing new 12VDC Off Grid system. Many questions. (Midnite 150)

[vk4akp]

Just rang them again and got someone this time.

Postage by UPS only option was US$170. So not worth while sadly.

USPS is around the US$100 mark.

Will keep looking.

I keep seeing the TriStar MPPT 60's on eBay going cheap but I really have my heart set on a Midnite Classic 150.

.-.-.

[phonetic]

Try DC Soultions in Fairfield Vic, are the agents for Midnitesolar in AU

http://www.dcsolutionsaustralia.com.au/renewables/solar-controllers-mppt.html

with USA dealers price + freight..its almost the same price from DC Solutions, and your helping PV supply chain in AU

[vk4akp]

Thanks, But they contacted me early in the peace.

Very friendly guy.

Prices no where near competitive,. He even said as much himself. Must make it hard for Midnite Solar to break into the Australian market with their excellent products.

I have put the project on hold for now. However the funds are still sitting there waiting for a solution.

Worst case we will just buy a Tristar.

Some one needs to get the Miodnite Classic 150's into Australia and salable at around the same $600+ mark,.

It's a good price point and I think they would do extremely well here. There is a huge focus on solar here these days.

.-.-.

[Robin]

UPS charges to Ausralia for a Classic are about $65.00 USD.
If you are comparing the price of a Morningstar on E-Bay to a Classic in Australia, there will be no comparison. The distributor in Australia has to pay the freight and also 15% duties. That means the Classic is going to cost more in Australia, but you will have service should it become necessary.
If you were comparing a Morningstar and OutBack in Australia vs. a Classic, I would think prices would be similar. The Classic Lite has a similar price here to the Morningstar and the OutBack FM80 is the same price here as the Classic 150. Are you seeing huge differences in prices in Australia?
If that is the case, then I need to find out why we are not being competitive?
Please provide dealer names, prices and model numbers so we can investigate.
You can always get a good price on a Classic from some of our larger dealers listed on our website too. You would need to spend money to get it back to us if there were ever a problem though. The local distributor is not going to be able to help you if you didn't purchase the Classic in Australia.
Robin

[vk4akp]

Hi Robin,

If I can get a Midnite Classic 150 (Not the lite version) for US$600 ish (USA street price) + US$65 freight. I'll take one this second.

So far USA distributors are quoting US$170 freight.

And the AU Distributor lists the 150 @ AU$999 but offered $949 via email.

With an advertised price of AU$999 + post on the one and only AU distributor website with a note along side (no stock) please contact us says it all.

You guys have a fantastic product. And given the huge interest in Solar currently and booming economy in Australia I would think that you would dearly love a huge chunk of the market here.
.-.-.

[niel]

ken,
as an aside i would be curious as to how you became familiar with the classic. i don't work for them, but i agree with you that they have some great stuff.

[Robin]

I did some checking on retail prices for you. Things do cost more in Australia. There are transportation costs and import duties. The distributor has to make a profit  too, so buying in OZ is just going to cost more. The market is smaller and that also affects price. The distributor will take care of any issues that come up when the Classic was purchased in OZ.
On the other hand, I checked some dealers in the US and they are pretty cheap. I do not know what they charge for shipping.
Here are my findings:
DC Solar Solutions OZ Classic 150 $899 AUD
Solaronline OZ FM80 $990 UAD
Solazone OZ FM80 $1250 AUD
Solaronline OZ Xantrex 60A $1050 AUD
OutBack Marine OZ FM80 $1076 AUD

Looks like all the OZ prices are similarly priced. One brand does not have an advantage over another.

Northern Arizona Wind and Sun Classic 150 $610 USD
Wholesale Solar Classic 150 $615 USD
E-Bay Classic 150 $679 USD
Alt-E Store Classic 150 $639 USD

The Classic 150 seems to be pretty competitive online in the US too. Things are cheaper here, but after paying shipping and duties, how much is being saved? How much does it cost and how long does it take to get a faulty unit fixed whan you have to send it back to the states.
Hard decision.

[vk4akp]

Hi Robin,

Yes. I have found US$610 to be about the best price so far for a few sellers in the USA.

The problem is the shipping costs. So far all insist on using UPS @$170.

As you have already said, a reasonable shipping cost should be around $65. (This is what I initially estimated it at also).

If I can find a State side seller that can accommodate this and ship at a realistic price then I'm happy to buy *NOW*!

Other wise it's just not worth while. There are so many good deals available online at far lesser prices for alternative brands the gap in pricing is just too great to ignore.

As an individual I don't pay any import duties for any purchases under $1000.

We live in a global market theses days where many people do a lot of their buying online and from overseas.
Wouldn't you like to see your products coming to a thriving Australian market via what ever method is most conducive to promote highest sales.

As for returns, I fully understand that I would have to foot the bill my end should there be an issue.
However I am very confident that Midnite have very good quality control on all units as they leave the factory.

We are also very interested in your lightning surge protectors. But once again, no point in pursuing this if we can't get things freighted over at a realistic price.

There is a huge market here currently for Grid connect systems. And to date the lightning protection side of things seems to be all but ignored by most installers.
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[onanparts]

I'm not a MS dealer but do ship to AU often from the West Coast. Punching the numbers in my shipping program, it would be $81.00 US insured to ship a classic 150 Via USPS Priority Mail International down under. $102.00 US to ship it Express mail.  Just my 2 cents worth......

[phonetic]

I still think its very important to support the PV suply chain in AU..some people are not so PV saavy and would need the support of a local dealer and support.
lots of DIY want to go off grid and in the scheme of thing balance of system components are around 20% of the install materials.
The big cost in stand alone PV system is the Battery Storage, upto 50% of material costs

my system costs aprox: $5k Battery bank, 2 midnite classics 150&lite $1.9k,
outback VFX3024E Inverter charger, mate & hub $2k (second hand), PVs $5k, PV tilt frames $1.5k (24 190w PVs), sundrys $1k

The Charge regs are the least of your system cost

[vk4akp]

Hi, Yep we've had some success actually.

Have found a couple of distributors with decent pricing on both equipment and freight to .AU

Will settle on one and order within the next few days.

Australian dollar has also started to rise again so this is helpful also to a very small degree.

Now with the lightning protectors. What's the norm there?

We will be doing both a grid feed system (Aurora PVI-5000-OUTD) 5KW panels - two strings, and a off grid (Midnite Classic 150) 1KW panels - parallel or series??.
What's the norm with fitting the Midnite lightning protectors? Which models and placed where on these systems?

Also while I agree it's good to try and support local business. With the global market and online ordering the way it is these days it's just not financially viable on many things.

Batteries. Well due to their weight they will most likely be bought locally.

.-.-.

I'm not a MS dealer but do ship to AU often from the West Coast. Punching the numbers in my shipping program, it would be $81.00 US insured to ship a classic 150 Via USPS Priority Mail International down under. $102.00 US to ship it Express mail.  Just my 2 cents worth......

[Robin]

The Midnite SPD's should be placed at the PV combiner if it is more than 75 or 100 feet away from the electronics. For an Aurora inverter, you would use an SPD600. For an off-grid combiner, it would be the SPD300.
The same should be connected at the other end of the combiner wiring right close to the PV input of the inverter or controller.
You should always have an AC SPD on the AC wiring. The grid tie inverter will need just one, but a battery based inverter should have an SPD300 on the AC input and AC output.
Did this help?

[vk4akp]

Hi thanks, Yes very helpful. Couple of spots there I didn't think about, so yes. Great thanks.

OK. So Midnite Classic 150 has been in transit for about a week+ now. Expect to see it some time next week.

Company was out of stock on the SPD's so we will look at that next order.
Also have some local installers very interested in your SPD's.
Only two weeks ago a news broadcast here featured a story on a Brisbane house that burnt down due to lighting striking the solar equipment at their house.

Pretty much all installers here have not even considered the advantages of offering SPD's as part of the installation process.

Now back to my system.

I have two more panels on order so the system should look something like this.

- 4x CSUN 250-60M Panels (1KWatt Total).
- Midnite Classic 150
- 12VDC Battery bank (NiFe - Nickle Iron [Edison Cells]). Size

So I have some more questions.

- Should I wire the panels up 4 in parallel, or 2 parallel strings of 2 in series?

- What is the simple math to work out the total maximum charging capability of the panel and controller combination that I will be using for sizing the battery bank (Ah's).

- Any good recommendations on where to buy the NiFe batteries?

- On completion of charging can I set up the Classic 150 to dump any  extra available current to an external device to be utilised for other things. Say an external grid connect inverter or heating element for water?

I think that's about it for today.

Thanks for your help.
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[vk4akp]

My Midnite Classic 150 turned up yesterday in the post.

Very impressed when I opened it up. Love the cast alloy case.
Shame the turbo fan section of the case is only plastic. The rest is beautiful.

I was wondering about a couple of things.

My unit didn't come with the clip in dust cover for the top of the unit.
I remember watching in one of the videos that this piece was supplied in the kit. ?? Has this changed now??

Also when taking the front cover off I notice a grove in the casing where a seal should go.
Mine doesn't have this seal. Is it missing? Or aren't these supplied standard?

I still have to buy some connectors, cable, and breakers, but can't wait to fire this baby up and give it a go.

Beautiful piece of equipment.!
.-.-.

[vk4akp]

ken,
as an aside i would be curious as to how you became familiar with the classic. i don't work for them, but i agree with you that they have some great stuff.

Sorry I must have missed this post earlier.

Interesting story actually.

We installed Grid Connect Solar here at the house and I was able to strike  up a deal with the supplier to get a few extra panels cheap.

Being interested in self sufficiency, ham radio, alternative energy and lifestyles in general I took a punt that I could adapt the panels to charge a 12VDC battery system.

I figured one of two things.

1. I could rewire the internal cell strings of the panels in the junction box by mucking with the 6 bypass diodes and tap points to get a lower voltage suitable for 12VDC charging.
2. Or possibly someone had thought of using the higher voltage grid connect panels for battery charging and had produced a controller already (MPPT).

I searched for weeks actually on eBay and in forums.
I came across a lot of different brands and models.
None of which really gave me the features I wanted.

1. High capacity (1KWatt+ of panels).
2. Good monitoring ability, preferably via Ethernet but I was prepared to put up with just RS485 / RS232 etc. 

I was almost going to settle on the TriStar MPPT 60 but I really wanted something larger. Had they of made a 80Amp version I probably would have purchased then and not searched any further.

Anyhow, I finally came across the Midnite Classic 150.
After seeing the features it offered I was sold. I knew that was the controller for me.

Then availability became an issue.
Easiest purchase would have been via eBay. But there are none on there.
I even found the Outbacks & TriStar's on eBay but no Midnite Classic's sadly.

So I started google'ing for suppliers in the USA.
During this time I was also contacted by a very nice chap that was the importer for Australia.
Unfortunately we both very quickly came to the conclusion that he was unable to provide competitive pricing which was a shame so buying locally was not an option.

Most of the USA suppliers insisted on UPS shipping at $170 ish. However I did manage to find two suppliers that were happy to ship using the USPS @ $85.

One company stood out from the rest in a big way.
Friendly staff, very helpful, and competitive pricing.
I actually only heard of them because their company was mentioned in this thread actually.

So I purchased from them and will do again in the future. They are great.

I do remember that it was only a fluke thing that I finally saw the Midnite Classic.
I think maybe more advertising is needed perhaps.
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