Old system, new layout, with questions

[azjustin]

Hey all,

I couldn't think of a better forum to ask than this so here goes:

I have an all original 1989 setup which was:
2 Zomeworks cable trackers
36 Arco/Siemens M75 modules
1 Trace SW4024
1 dead Trace C40
24 Volt System


The C40 is getting replaced with a Classic or Classic Lite for sure, but I had some questions before I get too involved with all of this.

I am hell bent on doing grid tie since I know I can produce far more than we use, this is a given.  I've read in a couple of places that the SW4024 is no longer a grid tie option?  I'm pretty sure my unit was produced no later than 1999, if that makes a difference.  I do have a serial #.  I've checked with the local jurisdictions to make sure I can use all the old equipment and of course they say all is well, until it isn't...

All the panels are within 15% of their original rated output, which I found amazing.

I plan on adding to this system consistently over the years with wind and solar.  After drooling for many hours I think the Classic 150 is my best bet for the time being?  The Lite is tempting since I already plan on monitoring it with my PC and considering the battery shed is about 100' away from the house, twice a month is the max I will be physically monitoring everything.

Anyways, I would really appreciate any thoughts or comments on this setup considering the age of everything and how it was set up when I bought it.

Thanks!


PS: Just a thought on the Classics: posts.  Although a #4 in air passes code, a 1/4" (or larger) threaded post would let you put any size wire on the controller you'd like.  Personally, I'd really like to stick a 1/0 on it.  The other day I talked to an idiot plan stamper here and he almost fell out of the chair when he saw the #4 notation but reconciled after a bit of discussion.  Just FYI.

I'm not an expert, just an observer who likes to pass out 2c to anyone who will listen, or wants 2c. 

[niel]

the pvs themselves may be a problem if there's no certification on them. there may not be any there simply because of how long ago they were made. if in doubt then look on the back of the pvs to see if something is there. only approved and certified stuff is allowed to be grid tied unless the utility and the inspector are forgiving.

[azjustin]

Everything is UL or ETL listed for sure.  I did some more looking around and the this is what I don't fully understand:

Per Tucson Electric Power, "The inverter must be certified as meeting the requirements of IEEE-1547 — Recommended Practice for Utility Interface of Photovoltaic Systems"

Does the SW4024 meet that standard?  Does the Classic have to?

[mtdoc]

Not sure if the Trace meets the standard - it may not given its vintage (per Wikipedia IEEE 1547 was implemented in 2003).  I don't believe the charge controller needs to meet that standard since it is not directly grid tied.

If you need a new qualified "grid interactive" type inverter - I can highly recomend the Outback GVFX3648.
If you plan on getting a Classic (also highly recomeneded) you might want to look into getting a Midnite ePanel prewired with the Outback inverter and Classsic CC.

[Allen15]

I'm contemplating a grid-tie setup also, and in my research of my local codes, I've found that the "letter of the law" says that only the inverter is required to be lab certified.

Our local codes not withstanding, I'd still have to pass an inspection from the local building inspector and/or the utility company prior to the utility company permitting a grid-tie, and they may not be comfortable with signing off on anything that wasn't lab certified for the entire system, but that is most likely just being lazy or unaware of the actual codes -- it makes their jobs much easier if they can just look at the markings that say that someone else has already approved of your equipment, instead of having to figure out anything on their own, or trust that you were competent.

The biggest reason that this may be an issue, is that depending on your "nameplate wattage rating" of your solar panels, the utility company may have different tiers of interconnection that you are permitted for, and they tend to have different inspection requirements, approval times, & fees, so they may not really know how to classify your setup, and in this case, it probably can only work against you...

In my area (Illinois), there are also several state renewable energy tax incentives, rebates, & similar programs that will tend to require production certification, in order to qualify, in addition to any possible federal programs, so if that was an incentive to go grid-tie, you may have other hoops to jump through to make it worthwhile.  If you're in the USA, you can find your state incentive programs at http://www.dsireusa.org/.

Can't help with the old inverter part, though.

Hope this helps,

Allen

[Robin]

The Trace SW inverter was listed to UL1741. That makes it legal. Do you have the Trace conduit box? If so, you can easily connect it up to the MnDC250.
If you do not have th conduit box, you will have exposed inverter cables. That does not meet code although I see installations all the time where the battery or inverter  cables are exposed. I am not condoning that practice, just mentioning it.
I think you will have no problem with the inspector if the cables are not exposed. All the equipment is listed. Use good wiring practices and give it a whirl.

[azjustin]

Thanks to everyone for the replies, a lot of good information from everyone.

So the power company accepted my plans and says all is good.  I provided them with all the cut sheets of the inverter, charge controller, etc., so they know exactly what I am installing and where.  So, we'll see!  City permits are next but that should be the easy part.

Robin:
I've looked around for a conduit box but for some reason can't find any.  Any thoughts?  I'm going to conduit as much wire as possible but you're right, it might not meet code in some spots, so I'm going to do my best.  Most city inspectors here don't even know what they're looking for outside of a standard roof mount grid-tie system so it will be interesting.


So now my only question is whether to buy a Classic 150, or Classic Lite. 
Looking at the comparison chart:
- The wind software available Sept 2012 for the Lite, was that released?
- The 8 built in data logging params that the Lite doesn't have, what would I be missing out on?  Does a network/PC link allow you to capture those params?


Other what is shown on the chart, is there any difference in the features?

Thanks!