I finally received the marine version of the kid after more than three weeks of waiting mode and finally did commission it into service. All the users 12 volts system setpoints were program into the kid, it is currently connected to 400 watts PV system with 140 amp/hr deep cycle flooded lead acid batteries. I tried to use the manual equalization features of the kid with voltage and timer setpoints of 15.5v and 120 minutes respectively. The kid power up for few second and I could hear clicking noise inside the kid after which the "LCD SCREEN" would displayed what appears to be black shaded boxes.(photo attached) I tried to switch off the PV breaker and the Battery breaker. Wait few seconds and power up the kid again the result same situation. Any one have the same experience with kid marine version? Take note of the green LED light its powered to on position to "RFC".
I wonder what version of the firmware was in there when you started out ? Did you try to see if it shows up if you plug in the programming cable ? I wonder if there is a way to force it into firmware update mode so you could try reloading the newest firmware.
Removing all the power via battery and PV should clear it you would think, but maybe you need to give it longer in case there are any backup capacitors to discharge . I don't remember if the Kid has a battery backup in it ? If it was me I would pull those fuses on the kid just to be sure all power sources were disconnected , then let it sit for awhile, and power it up again with only the battery first.
Otherwise call Midnite and ask them , might be a replacement problem.
Larry
Thanks Larry for the reply, The kid powered normally and shows the firmware version of 1742, before I ordered the unit I asked the authorized distributor NAWS to update for me to the latest software/firmware version of the kid. So they did upon my request. Could be hardware problem?
The Kid probably needs to sit awhile after being powered down and disconnected from the input source.
Since it is inoperable anyway I would power it down and let it sit overnight or something then fire it up and see what it does. Can't hurt.
The Kid update is done by dragging and dropping a file onto a folder that is created when you plug the update cable into your computer and power up The Kid. Very easy.
Some older units needed a bit more to update but I can't remember the details of that.
Good Luck with it.
Tom
Hi Tom thanks for the concern. The reason I asked NAWS to have it updated its firmware because of the possibility sourcing the usb cable which might cause me a problem. Anyway hopefully it's not hardware issues with the kid. Actually this unit is my third solar charge controller, the others were Bogart Engineering TM2030RV used in tandem with SC2030 and solarmate. Maybe I'll get in touch with NAWS regarding my issues and concern with the kid. Thanks guys
There is a newer version of the firmware - maybe a beta version but have not heard anyone say anything was wrong with it.
Doesn't the USB cable come with the Kid ? I believe it is just like a lot of the usb to mini or micro like you see on many phones. Not near my Kid now so I cannot confirm that.
Anyway as Tom said, when you plug in the Kid in firmware update mode , it shows up as another device on computer and you just drag the new firmware file in it and let it do it's thing.
Here is info on newest firmware http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2124.0
Hi psp..,
The KID MUST have separate battery negative and PV negative cables -- they are connected inside the KID. The KID measures output current in the negative leads.
Sometimes, if the KID replaces another CC, the negative PV and battery leads are connected together at a system busbar. This does not allow the KID to know the output current being delivered to the battery.
Please check and confirm that there is NO outside connection between the PV and battery negative cables.
And, it would be a good idea to confirm the battery cable connections at the KID, and with the rest of the system.
Is the battery that the KID is connected to reasonably well-charged?
The RFC LED would normally indicate that the battery has Received Full Charge, which might indicate something to the MN Tech folks, but not to me.
FWIW, Vic
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on March 02, 2015, 01:23:28 PM
There is a newer version of the firmware - maybe a beta version but have not heard anyone say anything was wrong with it.
Doesn't the USB cable come with the Kid ? I believe it is just like a lot of the usb to mini or micro like you see on many phones. Not near my Kid now so I cannot confirm that.
Anyway as Tom said, when you plug in the Kid in firmware update mode , it shows up as another device on computer and you just drag the new firmware file in it and let it do it's thing.
Here is info on newest firmware http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2124.0
Hi CC
This is not a Beta unit of the kid, likewise the kid doesn't comes standard with the usb cable. Yes the possibility of usb phone cables can be utilize, Besides I don't want to void its warranty just in case. I email NAWS regarding the issue still waiting for their reply.
Quote from: Vic on March 02, 2015, 01:40:10 PM
Hi psp..,
The KID MUST have separate battery negative and PV negative cables -- they are connected inside the KID. The KID measures output current in the negative leads.
Sometimes, if the KID replaces another CC, the negative PV and battery leads are connected together at a system busbar. This does not allow the KID to know the output current being delivered to the battery.
Please check and confirm that there is NO outside connection between the PV and battery negative cables.
And, it would be a good idea to confirm the battery cable connections at the KID, and with the rest of the system.
Is the battery that the KID is connected to reasonably well-charged?
The RFC LED would normally indicate that the battery has Received Full Charge, which might indicate something to the MN Tech folks, but not to me.
FWIW, Vic
Hi Vic
I double check all connection wires coming into and out of the kid including the PV side to Battery side respectively all is well secured and properly connected. Anyway as a general rule, battery has to be fully charge first to begin the equalization cycle. All load were also disconnected with battery because of the high voltage during equalization process.anyway I'm still waiting for NAWS reply what do next. I'll keep posted for updates.
Quote from: psp300639 on March 02, 2015, 03:56:36 PM
Quote from: Vic on March 02, 2015, 01:40:10 PM
Hi psp..,
The KID MUST have separate battery negative and PV negative cables -- they are connected inside the KID. The KID measures output current in the negative leads.
Sometimes, if the KID replaces another CC, the negative PV and battery leads are connected together at a system busbar. This does not allow the KID to know the output current being delivered to the battery.
Please check and confirm that there is NO outside connection between the PV and battery negative cables.
And, it would be a good idea to confirm the battery cable connections at the KID, and with the rest of the system.
Is the battery that the KID is connected to reasonably well-charged?
The RFC LED would normally indicate that the battery has Received Full Charge, which might indicate something to the MN Tech folks, but not to me.
FWIW, Vic
Hi Vic
I double check all connection wires coming into and out of the kid including the PV side to Battery side respectively all is well secured and properly connected. Anyway as a general rule, battery has to be fully charge first to begin the equalization cycle. All load were also disconnected with battery because of the high voltage during equalization process.anyway I'm still waiting for NAWS reply what do next. I'll keep posted for updates.
OK, thanks for the reply ...
OK, so the KID worked fine when doing the normal charge cycle, and only had this unusual behavior when you initiated the EQ ?? Has the KID behaved normally prior to you trying to do the EQ??
And, just to make sure, the PV negative wire from the PV modules connect directly and ONLY to the PV Negative terminal inside the KID, and NOWHERE ELSE? And the battery negative wire connects directly to the KID, and there is NO connection between the battery negative wire and PV negative EXCEPT inside the KID ??
Sorry to be so tedious, but the separation of the PV and battery negative cables, and having the only connection between these two cables INSIDE the KID is important for its proper operation. Thanks, Vic
Hi Vic
The kid work as expected during the normal cycle got the shunt and whizbang jr connected and working properly as well. It's only during the equalization cycles will the LCD screen behaves unusual. All loads were disconnected and the only wires connected to the kid were the PV and Battery nothing else. What causes the LCD screen to behave abnormal. Any thoughts?
Hi psp..,
Thanks for the added info.
So you are using the Battery Temperature Sensor attached to one battery?
I really have no other ideas. Have used a Manual EQ, on a KID, with the compensated EQ voltage over 17 V, and the KID had no problem with it.
Wonder is you reduced the EQ voltage to about 15.0 V, if that might make any difference.
Dunno, will let others comment, Good Luck, Vic
Hi Vic,
I also tried that procedure of installing the BTS no improvement whatsoever, likewise also went disconnected, maybe reducing the voltage will not be within the battery manufacturer recommendation. I m trying to salvage the situation hopefully, I'll try the recommendation to remove everything likes wires, loads etc and let the kid rest for while. I'll keep posted for updates.
Quote from: psp300639 on March 02, 2015, 05:34:13 PM
Hi Vic, ... maybe reducing the voltage will not be within the battery manufacturer recommendation. I m trying to salvage the situation hopefully, I'll try the recommendation to remove everything likes wires, loads etc and let the kid rest for while. I'll keep posted for updates.
psp...,
There is no question, that reducing the EQ voltage, as I had suggested, would most probably not meet the EQ spec of the battery manufacturer, but neither would doing the EQ within the speced range, if the KID will not perform that EQ, of course ... just trying to get at one corner of the performance envelope.
Also wonder about setting the Current Limit in the KID to something like 7 A. Technically, one might really want to limit the EQ Max current to about 5% of 20 Hr Capacity, or approximately 7 A, if your 140 AH rating is the 20 hour rating.
When EQing the Flooded banks here, manually limit the EQ current to 5% of C, maximum.
FWIW, Vic
Hello Vic,
I have similar set up for 12 volts off grid system but this unit is the Bogart Engineering model TM2030RV used in tandem with the SC2030 30 amps max solar charge controller with same set up system of 400 watts PV with 140 amp/hr flooded lead acid battery. It has a shunt connection same manner as the kid, same principle were applied to the kid went connected to the whizbang jr. I did program the setpoints for the Equalization cycles to 15.7 volts and 3% current limit respectively and as specified in the Bogart instructional manual with no issues and concern. Very satisfied the results of the Bogart unit. Relative thereto I did the same with the kid but at a lower voltage of 15.5 volts with current limit to 4.2 amps or 3% equivalent of battery capacity. Remember these are separate system only difference is the solar charge controller one having the characteristics of "PWM" and the other "MPPT", both units have maximum charging capacity of 30 amps. The programing setpoints for the TM2030RV and the SC2030 is quite complicated but I was able to commission it with no issues and concern. Yes battery has the C/20 ratings. thanks for sharing the knowledge and experience. "High on LED and SOLAR", Cheers.
Quote from: Vic on March 02, 2015, 06:27:19 PM
Quote from: psp300639 on March 02, 2015, 05:34:13 PM
Hi Vic, ... maybe reducing the voltage will not be within the battery manufacturer recommendation. I m trying to salvage the situation hopefully, I'll try the recommendation to remove everything likes wires, loads etc and let the kid rest for while. I'll keep posted for updates.
Vic said
Also wonder about setting the Current Limit in the KID to something like 7 A. Technically, one might really want to limit the EQ Max current to about 5% of 20 Hr Capacity, or approximately 7 A, if your 140 AH rating is the 20 hour rating.
When EQing the Flooded banks here, manually limit the EQ current to 5% of C, maximum.
FWIW, Vic
Hi Vic,
I always limit the charging amps to 3% of the battery capacity using the data of the Bogart engineering set up system recommendation. During the equalization cycle, I did notice the bubbling of the sulfuric acid, foul smell like rotten egg characteristics and likewise the battery temperature compensation specific gravity test results will also taken into consideration. All those procedures mentioned were applied using the Bogart TM2030 in tandem with the SC2030 and it works flawlessly for off grid system, Armed with those data and experience with the Bogart unit , I used those setpoint data parameters with the kid knowing and having identical setup system as the Bogart unit, unfortunately it does not perform as expected. I'll keep my fingers cross hopefully the LCD screen issues will be thing of the past. "High on LED and SOLAR" cheers.
I have asked Mario and Raechel to read through this but I am semi confused. So did the Kid go back to working ok now or is it still showing the black boxes?
Ryan
Good morning all! I have been talking with Mario. I do need a clarification if the blocks occur when normally charging or if just when EQ-ing. Has rebooting the Kid made any difference at all? Could you please let me know what the serial number of that Kid is? If you would like to talk this over on the phone I would be more than happy to help. -Raechel 360 403 7207
Also- have you calibrated it on both the PV and Battery sides?
Quote from: Halfcrazy on March 03, 2015, 11:19:57 AM
I have asked Mario and Raechel to read through this but I am semi confused. So did the Kid go back to working ok now or is it still showing the black boxes?
Ryan
Hi Ryan,
I attempted twice to do the Equalization cycles in both cases the LCD screen would behave unusual and the end results those Black boxes appears on the screen as explain earlier. I never attempted to continue the EQ process knowing something is not working properly. I proceeded to disconnect the PV and Battery wires at the terminal block of the kid. Since then I never commission the kid into service.
Quote from: Raechel on March 03, 2015, 01:41:15 PM
Good morning all! I have been talking with Mario. I do need a clarification if the blocks occur when normally charging or if just when EQ-ing. Has rebooting the Kid made any difference at all? Could you please let me know what the serial number of that Kid is? If you would like to talk this over on the phone I would be more than happy to help. -Raechel 360 403 7207
Hi Raechel,
Quote from my earlier post
Hi Vic
The kid work as expected during the normal cycle got the shunt and whizbang jr connected and working properly as well. It's only during the equalization cycles will the LCD screen behaves unusual. All loads were disconnected and the only wires connected to the kid were the PV and Battery nothing else. What causes the LCD screen to behave abnormal. Any thoughts?
Quote from: Raechel on March 03, 2015, 01:41:15 PM
xxxxxx. If you would like to talk this over on the phone I would be more than happy to help. -Raechel 360 403 7207
Good evening Raechel thanks for your concern. As much as I wanted and eager to know the cause the unusual behavior of the KID, I think that's not possible because of our time zone differences of 15+ hours and the approximate distance of 12,704 km. it will not be cost effective for me to make the IDD long distance calls, anyway NAWS had responded to my last three emails I send them regarding the issues and concern.
Has the issue been fixed?
Quote from: Raechel on March 04, 2015, 10:53:04 AM
Has the issue been fixed?
Hi Raechel,
I never attempted to powered up the Kid again, all the PV and Battery wires were temporarily disconnected at its terminal block. Besides its only during weekends we have immediate family members around. I don't want the unit powered up and left it unattended knowing its present condition, maybe this coming weekends I'll try to commission it again, so I'll have all day long to observe its behavior. It's already March 5 and 5:40 in the morning by 7:30 have to report for work.
Quote from: Raechel on March 03, 2015, 01:41:15 PMxxxxx. Could you please let me know what the serial number of that Kid is?
Hi Raechel
I have been trying to locate the serial numbers, I tried opening the back plate cover of the kid, unfortunately cannot locate them either inside or outside the unit. Can you be of help?
Hi Psp,
It should be on the bottom on the same sticker that has the ETL logo,
Doug
Quote from: Doug on March 05, 2015, 10:39:22 AM
Hi Psp,
It should be on the bottom on the same sticker that has the ETL logo,
Doug
Hi Doug
The one labelled on the sticker with "alphanumeric" characters with combination of "Bar Code"? Hopefully this should be the one. Thanks Doug.
Yep, That's the one.
Starts with KB or KW.
Doug
Good morning to all. It's Saturday once again the time is 7:30AM, I just finished setting up the "Kid", hopefully the weather will cooperate all day, I'll be on waiting mode.
Quote from: Doug on March 06, 2015, 12:53:45 PM
Yep, That's the one.
Starts with KB or KW.
Doug
Hi Doug,
Off topic question, but I'm just curious what's the difference between the series code starting "KB" and "KW"? Could be "Kid Black" and the other "Kid White" in reference to the color model of the kid?
Hi PSP,
Quotewhat's the difference between the series code starting "KB" and "KW"? Could be "Kid Black" and the other "Kid White"
Yes That's exactly it.
Doug
Hi Doug,
Thanks for the reply.
This is off topic question, I have been browsing the YouTube anything to do with the Midnite solar the Kid, my observation it appears the LCD screen of the Kid has two "LED" color background , one has the "light Green" the other "Light Gray" color which one is the latest? The unit I had is the former. Anyone?
I believe green is what we use now. We tried Blue, Grey and Green.
Thanks Doug,
It's already 10:30 AM, the sun is not cooperating, hopefully by noon time condition will improve. ( see attached Photo).
The Kid was able to reach the floating stage at 12:03 noon time, see photo attached.
By 12:07 noon time started the Equalization cycles. See photo attached.
By 1:12 pm the kid did it again, the results the same Black Box appears on the LCD screen of the unit. I did observe this time the kid was able to manage the equalization cycle much longer period of time from 12:07 noon time to 1:12 PM, unlike the previous encounter takes only few seconds to appear the anomaly during the EQ cycles. See attached photo for reference
I just disconnect everything PV and Battery wires and let the Kid to rest for now, I tried but failed hopefully anyone can be of help? I will not give up easily on the Kid knowing it takes approximate 12,704 kilometer to reached my destination. I'll keep my fingers cross hopefully 911 is on its way to extend a helping hand with the kid.
I ll take rest for now, it's so tiring taking notes and photographs and watching real time what the kid does, I prepared the unit as early as 7:30AM it's now 3:09PM. Maybe tomorrow, l won't promise anything but will see what happens. Let us continue the journey with the kid and for sure I'll am always be there by its side. See you guys.
Other observation I forgot to mentioned. During EQ cycles whenever the "LCD screen" was on the "main status screen", I accidentally push the "Enter" Button instead the "Menu/Back" button will cause clicking noise and fraction of second later those Black boxes will appear again. Unfortunately, I was not able to record and video of the anomaly.Those clicking noise is comparable with kid early morning start-up when the sun is still rising. Hopefully my experience with kid can be of help to others. Lastly, is it possible for marine kid to load the Beta firmware version for the Beta units ? Will it void the warranty? Anyone for your comment?
The Midnite products are designed and expected that you will do firmware updates. So if it was mine I would try the newest firmware beta update and see if that fixes the problem. I looked up that programming cable and it is just a type that you would use for a cell phone - I forget the exact one - if it is micro or mini but one of those.
There should not be any problem using your Kid if it is working normally in regular charging mode - you only see that problem with equalize so don't see why you can't leave it all connected and just don't put it in equalize. The other thing you could try to do is just up the setpoint to where you would for equalize and watch it and then change it back to normal absorb setting after you do your one or two hours of equalize at higher voltage until you figure out the problem with this.
Not sure what kind of batteries you have but you should only need to equalize flooded lead acid batteries once a month or so . I have been just using equalize cycle to run up to absorb voltage every 10 days but equalize will hold it there for 4 hours so that it mixes up the electrolyte and won't get stratification . But if you have AGM sealed batteries rules for equalize are different and maybe not even needed.
Larry
Quote from: psp300639 on March 07, 2015, 07:21:55 AM
is it possible for marine kid to load the Beta firmware version for the Beta units ?
These, Beta firmware and Beta units , are actually 2 different issues...
Beta Firmware you will find on the site contain the latest version of the Firmware...
Beta Units, I have one, were the first issued KIDs to test units in real life situations.. not to be mistaken as one and the same thing.
hth
Quote from: Westbranch on March 07, 2015, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: psp300639 on March 07, 2015, 07:21:55 AM
is it possible for marine kid to load the Beta firmware version for the Beta units ?
These, Beta firmware and Beta units , are actually 2 different issues...
Beta Firmware you will find on the site contain the latest version of the Firmware...
Beta Units, I have one, were the first issued KIDs to test units in real life situations.. not to be mistaken as one and the same thing.
hth
The Kid I had is a production model, it has the latest firmware version of 1742 release last July 01, 2014. I'm just trying to explore other possibilities if the anomaly can be corrected. Anyway there's no official pronouncement from the company, then I will no longer pursue those option. Thanks WB.
You will not void any warranty installing updated firmware - otherwise just about everyone on these forums is out of luck ! ha ha .
No problem - this is the one you should try out if you are going to , try 1761
http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2124.0
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on March 07, 2015, 04:35:03 PM
You will not void any warranty installing updated firmware - otherwise just about everyone on these forums is out of luck ! ha ha .
No problem - this is the one you should try out if you are going to , try 1761
http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2124.0
Hi CC,
It's so tempting to try the beta firmware, but I still have "other" option which I'll try today, as of the moment I will not post yet the secret remedy ha ha, but will see what happens later. I ll will continue to post for updates.
Here's the specific gravity reading I took for cell number 5, other cells SG still have 20 points difference. Refer to photo attached.
Here's the procedure I have done so far, the set-points charging voltage parameters was modified likewise the PV wattage had been reduce from its original settings from 400 watts to 200 watts. As far as the voltage charging parameters are concern I use these set-points for the EQ cycle as follows ( n.b. the Float cycle has been achieve previously) go to the Battery setting of the Kid and tinker the EQ voltage parameters from 14.4V to 14.8v to 15.0v to 15.5v and last setting I use 15.7v at 30 minutes interval in between increments. The "Kid" manage to hold on those settings without incident. I did observe whenever over cast shadows appears the "kid" will cycle from "EQUALIZE" to "EQ MPPT" and I could hear clearly the continuous and rapid clicking of the internal relay, I timed the over cast shadows averaging from 1 to 5 minutes. It's already 12:35 noon, I still have 3+ hours left to observe the "Kid". sharing my experience with the "Kid".
I did manage to stop momentarily the continuous and rapid clicking of the internal relay by adjusting its anti clicking sensitivity feature of the kid. This only happens whenever overcast shadows appears during the EQ cycles. Comparing yesterday notes, I could see the actual voltages registering at 13.5v during the EQ cycles and the Kid would momentarily reboot and power up again and shows those Black box anomaly. I think the overcast shadows from the sun contributes the anti sensitivity features of the kid especially during the EQ cycles were higher voltage is needed for longer period of time without interruption from the sun. Those overcast shadows from the sun are not suppose to affect the kid knowing full well it's MPPT features that can handle the situation. I own another solar charge controller it has the "PWM" features the TRIMETRIC 2030RV used in tandem with the SC2030 and never encounter the problem as the kid. Even if overcast shadows appears at longer time it will not reboot during the EQ cycles. All the user has to do is tinker two settings, the voltage set-point setting and the Timer set-point setting that's it no more worries just like plug and forget. Anyway sharing my experience with both units.
It's already 5:00pm got to rest for now. This may be off topic, but it's worth sharing my other off grid setup, anyway here's the Bogart Trimetric 2030RV used in tandem with the SC2030 during the Float stage cycles. Refer to photo attached for the SC2030 solar charge controller.
and finally here's the Bogart TM2030RV showing the Float voltage. Refer to photo attached. Finally see you guys next weekends my journey with Kid continues.
Quote from: Raechel on March 03, 2015, 01:41:15 PM
xxxxx. Has rebooting the Kid made any difference at all?
Yes tried the factory resetting no improvement at all, the kid have mind of its own.
Other related concern. Trying to reflect my experience with the marine kid. The kid would transition from "RESTING" to "BULKMPPT" stage and I could hear the relay kicks in and later reboot this will continue the cycles and process all over again. The anti clicking sensitivity remains at factory setting level "8". This incident happens during daytime period when there's overcast shadows appears. How about during the cycle of "SUNRISE" and "SUNSET" is the kid suppose to act normal this way?
It looks like I'm not the only one having this issues. Follow the link http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2387.0
Hi Raechel I send you email the serial number of the Midnite solar the kid marine version, please verify and update me on the subject and other requirements. Thanks
Reviewing my last weekends notes it appears the "Menu/Back bottons" will not response if the kid will display those "black Boxes" anomaly in the LCD Screen, I tried the "Status", "Setup" "Save" including the "Left","Right","Up", or "Down" and the "Enter" buttons the Kid will not response, the only way out of the situation is to disconnect PV and Battery wires then, reconnect everything again, the kid will power up normally shows the "Main status Screen" again. There is one inccident were the kid will "Reboot" during the EQ cycle, i did accidentally touch the "Enter Button" instead the "Menu/Back" Buttons and the internal relay kicks in making those rapid clicking noises and reboot. Maybe this coming weekends I try to duplicate this inccident will see if the Kid does it again. I'll continue to post for updates. I'm "High on LED and SOLAR". Cheers. See you Guys
This is the overcast shadows appears from the open skies which I took a snap shot photo last weekends. During the EQ cycles stage were the voltage recorded as low as 13.5 will register in the LCD screen and I could hear the rapid clicking noises from its internal relay. As a result fraction of a second later the "LCD screen" will displayed those "Black boxes" anomaly. As I have explain earlier all the "Buttons" keys will render it inoperative and useless.
Reviewing my last weekends notes, the kid will transition from "EQUALIZE to "EQ MPPT" as it appears in the LCD screen. Now I can make two educated guess, first condition, if there were clear skies the kid will display "EQUALIZE". Second condition, if there were overcast shadows from the skies the kid will display "EQ MPPT". I think the second condition is the cause of the problem it is at this stage of the EQ cycle were the kid behave unusual. I'm not a technical guy just trying to analyze and understand the current situation and to be part in solving the kid mystery "LCD screen" of the Kid gone wild. Hopefully tomorrow nature will cooperate. I'll keep posted for updates.
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on March 13, 2015, 08:49:49 AM
I would have tried new firmware by now to see if it fixed the problems you are having.
Trying to source those usb cable but luck is not in my favor, I have seen those play station portable usb cable, its port is identical, but the problem cannot fit all the way, the back cover of the kid getting its way.On brighter sight, Raechel has commited to provide the USB cable and the surface mount adapter for the marine kid. By the way here's the photo of the PSP USB to mini.
If it is an old cable you don't really care too much about you could try using a razor blade to trim some of the plastic covering off of the cable housing in the areas where it is hitting the Kid case.
Larry
Please check the PV voltage with a voltmeter and compare that to the display of the KID. Do they agree 100%??
Mario is saying this is a calibration issue not a code issue but he is working on some stuff in code to make this problem go away without calibrating the Kid I think
Attached is the procedure for calibrating. MAKE SURE MODE IS OFF!
Ryan
Quote from: Halfcrazy on March 13, 2015, 11:31:07 AM
Please check the PV voltage with a voltmeter and compare that to the display of the KID. Do they agree 100%??
Mario is saying this is a calibration issue not a code issue but he is working on some stuff in code to make this problem go away without calibrating the Kid I think
Attached is the procedure for calibrating. MAKE SURE MODE IS OFF!
Ryan
Currently using Google "Chrome" software cannot download the pdf file using that medium, I change to "Safari" software I was able to download the pdf file. It's not compatible with chrome, anyway I got the pdf file.
Thanks Ryan
Hi Ryan
Here's the kid in resting mode.
PSP, I use Firefox on my EeePC and it works well with my Classics, no hickups or ??? when you do an update or other MN apps
Quote from: psp300639 on March 13, 2015, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Halfcrazy on March 13, 2015, 11:31:07 AM
Please check the PV voltage with a voltmeter and compare that to the display of the KID. Do they agree 100%??
Mario is saying this is a calibration issue not a code issue but he is working on some stuff in code to make this problem go away without calibrating the Kid I think
Attached is the procedure for calibrating. MAKE SURE MODE IS OFF!
Ryan
Currently using Google "Chrome" software cannot download the pdf file using that medium, I change to "Safari" software I was able to download the pdf file. It's not compatible with chrome, anyway that got the file.
Thanks Ryan
I use Chrome on a Win8.1 machine and just for the heck of it I downloaded the file. Got it fine. It opens.
Hi Ryan
Here's the reading using the "SANWA" CD800 Digital Multimeter.
Refer to photo attached.
Quote from: Westbranch on March 13, 2015, 07:04:06 PM
PSP, I use Firefox on my EeePC and it works well with my Classics, no hickups or ??? when you do an update or other MN apps
Hi Westbranch
I'm currently using iPhone iOS 8.20 latest version and safari software, I got the file downloaded using safari. Unfortunately no access to laptops and PCs.
Hi Ryan
I got the file how to calibrate the Kid, tried the procedure outline therein, the kid reported its readings 12.6v while the digital meter shows 12.63v, likewise my other monitoring device the Trimetric TM2030RV shows the same readings of 12.6v, I guess the difference is negligible. As of this moment the kid in normal charging "absorption stage" with time settings of 120 minutes. The whizbang Jr working is properly.
Hi Ryan
I forgot to post the calibration of the PV side of the kid as you requested, anyway here's the photo of the voltage readings registered in the LCD screen for your reference.
Hi Ryan
I forgot to post the calibration of the PV side of the kid as you requested, anyway here's the photo of the voltage readings registered in the CD800 Digital Multimeter LCD screen for your reference.
So I see You have it 1.1v offset was that done during this calibration?
Quote from: Halfcrazy on March 14, 2015, 04:50:55 AM
So I see You have it 1.1v offset was that done during this calibration?
Hi Ryan,
Yes I got the readings from the input side of the PV Terminal Block of the Kid using "SANWA" CD800 Digital Multimeter. The calibration has been made to properly match the LCD Screen output readings of the Kid vs the PV side. The calibration was done around 9:00am were the energy of the sun is not yet at its peak but I guess it serve its purpose. Likewise the Battery input side was also calibrated at the Terminal Block of the Kid using the same digital Meter, but there's a .03v difference which I believe is negligible. Refer to photo attached for reference.(Battery input side only for Calibration).
Hi Ryan
Refer to the photo attached below for reference. Those two brown wires at the right most side of the kid Terminal Block is the PV input side, that's were I took the readings of the PV voltage side vs the LCD screen of kid to properly calibrate its input voltage. I hope the procedure I have done is the correct one or is it not? Any comment?
The CD800 Digital Multimeter I used to calibrate the PV and BATTERY.
That should be it, Turn the mode off then make the Kid read the same as the meter. Lets see what it does?
Quote from: Halfcrazy on March 14, 2015, 07:00:34 PM
That should be it, Turn the mode off then make the Kid read the same as the meter. Lets see what it does?
Hi Ryan
The Kid is in the EQ cycle process as of this moment no overcast shadows perfect, the weather is cooperating quite well, the LCD Screen displayed "EQUALIZE" no transition whatsoever to "EQ MPPT", I'll check again the calibration after the EQ Cycle has ended. I'll keep posted for updates.
The EQ simulation did manage to pass with flying colors which greatly contributed by the clear skies and had not experience the overcast shadows, In so far as the calibration side for PV it was perfect, it did match quite well with the Digital multimeter, however on the Battery side it always has variance compared with the Kid LCD screen voltage readings vs digital multimeter, I guess it is negligible. The kid was temporally disconnected till next weekends.
Quote from: Mtn Don on March 13, 2015, 07:05:15 PM
Quote from: psp300639 on March 13, 2015, 06:58:35 PM
Quote from: Halfcrazy on March 13, 2015, 11:31:07 AM
Please check the PV voltage with a voltmeter and compare that to the display of the KID. Do they agree 100%??
Mario is saying this is a calibration issue not a code issue but he is working on some stuff in code to make this problem go away without calibrating the Kid I think
Attached is the procedure for calibrating. MAKE SURE MODE IS OFF!
Ryan
Currently using Google "Chrome" software cannot download the pdf file using that medium, I change to "Safari" software I was able to download the pdf file. It's not compatible with chrome, anyway that got the file.
Thanks Ryan
I use Chrome on a Win8.1 machine and just for the heck of it I downloaded the file. Got it fine. It opens.
Currently using iPhone IOS 8.2 latest version, no access to Laptops and PCs, I tried using chrome it had issues, so tried safari it works got the file, well I guess softwares has compatibility issues as well.
It may be off topic but anyway, Here's the latest updates from chrome dated as of March 16, 2015, I downloaded the file from apps store and install its latest version. I tried to get the pdf file Ryan posted using the chrome latest updates, the file was able to download without issues and open in iBooks perfect. Here's photo attached For reference.
It's Saturday once again, this kid still giving me headaches, I followed the procedure for calibration it works quite well only during clears skies whenever overcast shadows appears the kid will transition from "EQUALIZE" to "EQ MPPT" then goes to "RESTING", besides the timer for EQ cycles is still on process. I verified the voltage recorded in the LCD as low as 13.5v, it stays there for while then cycle all over again. The kid trying is to maximize its charging potential as demonstrated by its transitions mentioned earlier, supposedly the kid should work better during cloudy or hazy days, but going to "RESTING" during EQ cycle? Is the kid acting normal? Updates, during the whole day observation I never seen the Black box appears and the rebooting anomaly, except for the "RESTING" mode during the ongoing EQ cycle. I am not yet ready on giving up on the kid knowing it's making lot of power during the normal charging cycle process.
if it is cloudy enough yes it will go to resting. The Kid will need to see more than 10 watts of power before it will stay out of Resting
Hi Ryan,
May I ask if the calibration process will now be made integral part of the firmware upgrades? I mean there will be no more users intervention in calibrating the kid? Plug and play features? Eliminating the need to do it manually.
Hi psp ..,
This question is a bit off-topic, but, How often are you doing an EQ?
Are you using EQs to try to get balanced SGs? I have forgotten what you batteries happen to be -- Flooded, Sealed or other, and your Signature is not visible while writing a Post.
Thanks! Vic
Quote from: psp300639 on March 21, 2015, 12:30:18 PM
It's Saturday once again, this kid still giving me headaches, I followed the procedure for calibration it works quite well only during clears skies whenever overcast shadows appears the kid will transition from "EQUALIZE" to "EQ MPPT" then goes to "RESTING", besides the timer for EQ cycles is still on process. I verified the voltage recorded in the LCD as low as 13.5v, it stays there for while then cycle all over again. The kid trying is to maximize its charging potential as demonstrated by its transitions mentioned earlier, supposedly the kid should work better during cloudy or hazy days, but going to "RESTING" during EQ cycle? Is the kid acting normal? Updates, during the whole day observation I never seen the Black box appears and the rebooting anomaly, except for the "RESTING" mode during the ongoing EQ cycle. I am not yet ready on giving up on the kid knowing it's making lot of power during the normal charging cycle process.
Well with only 400W of PV I would think this would be normal operation for your system on cloudy overcast days. Don't forget the wattage on the name plate of your panels is rated for a very specific temp usually 72-75 F degree and a very specific light level. In the real world of solar you are lucky to get 70-80% of this stated value. And with cloudy conditions you are not going to get anywhere near that wattage. What makes you think it should work better on cloudy days? What is the set point for EQ voltage that you are trying to achieve?
This maybe off topic but it's worth mentioning, anyway here's the link
http://www.solar-electric.com/mppt-solar-charge-controllers.html
Another link
http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?1923-To-mppt-or-not-to-mppt-That-is-the-question
I have been doing trouble shooting for electrical system for automotives and motorcycles especially the ignition coils same principles were applied having primary and secondary windings to step up the voltage, In solar application I see no difference. Just tying to understand the behavior of the kid in EQ cycles process.
Yeah the panels do better when they are cool but you still need the sun (light). So yes they do better in the cooler winter months when you have sun not clouds. And in the summer when you normally have more sun the panels get hotter and do not produce as much, but you usually have more daylight in the summer than in the winter. Of course this depends on your location.
You might check your panel documentation to see if they provide typical I-V curves for various temps and lighting. They are very helpful in understanding what you may get out of your panels. System wiring and a variety of other issues also effect output. The Midniite products do an excellent job provided they are configured and setup properly. IMHO there is no such thing as Plug-and-Play in the Solar PV world.
OK psp..,
Thanks .. was just a bit concerned that very frequent EQs, with the relatively high (usual(+) EQ voltages is really not that good for your batteries, unless they really need EQing.
Guess that you have Flooded batteries ... forget.
FWIW, Thanks, Vic
It maybe off topic, but since I also have the Bogart TM2030RV and SC2030 it's worth sharing my experience. Two days ago I wrote Bogart Engineering my intention in using the TM2030RV to control two SC2030 solar chargers to control up to 62 amps from solar panel in 12/24 battery system. It has never been tried but maybe I'll be the first to do the honor, anyway a day later Ralf the owner emailed the procedure in stacking two SC2030 solar charger, here's the link for information purpose only. Currently the procedure is now posted in their website under the caption SC2030 solar charger here's the complete link
http://www.bogartengineering.com/sites/default/files/docs/ConnectTwoSC-2030-Rev1.pdf
I think it is similar to the stacking two kid in follow me mode to double the harvesting energy from the sun. I send back my unit for upgrades last Friday to Bogart Engineering to incorporate their new program for manual equalization, for now have to wait for another three weeks for the unit to arrive, it will take approximate 12,704 km via USPS.
As I have said before, currently have two similar system the only thing that will separate them is the type of solar charge controller, one having the PWM type (Bogart TM2030RV paired with SC2030) and the other MPPT type (Midnite solar the kid), both have similar system in terms of rated PV, Battery, PV wires same length and size,same rated shunt, over current protection devices etc, all other variables were taken into considerations. Once tried to swap their places, knowing having similar setup, the rest is history.
My 3Kw & 2Kw arrays don't even make 10% of nameplate on average cloudy days. On a dark rainy day, it's close to nothing. PV only really "works" in full sun or light overcast.
It is also worth noting you really can not do a Apples to Apples testing of PWM vs MPPT on the same array and battery. To be fair the MPPT should have more voltage and if you was to give the PWM more voltage it wont be able to use it.
To be fair the way to do a head to head testing would be:
12 volt battery
2 12v modules in parallel on the PWM
2 12v modules in series on the MPPT
Last March 11, 2015 I was advice there was delay in sending a new kid until next week, it's now March 22, 2015, the cause of the delay? honestly I don't know, I'm still waiting for the RMA labels.
psp
I’m curious; I went back through this thread and did not find any information on your panel type or specification other than total PV wattage (400 watts) or how you have them configured. As Ryan has pointed out for a MPPT controller your panels need to have enough voltage over your battery system which appears to be 12 volt to function properly. You also appear to be using a high EQ set point of 15.5 volts.
So could you post your panel manufactures and model, panel specifications, and panel configuration? It would also be good to know your current panel ambient temperature and yearly temperature range and general location. And if you are using the BTS the temperature of the battery bank, battery manufacture and battery bank configuration.
I think with this information the talented folks on this forum can provide some of their expertise. :)
Might be good to start a completely new thread as we have appeared to have wonder off topic of your original post.
Quote from: psp300639 on March 22, 2015, 08:34:00 AM
Last March 11, 2015 I was advice there was delay in sending a new kid until next week, it's now March 22, 2015, the cause of the delay? honestly I don't know, I'm still waiting for the RMA labels.
The RMA was going to be to repair the blocks on the screen, Calibrating the Kid removed the blocks so I assumed we no longer need to worry about an RMA.
Am I missing something?
Quote from: Halfcrazy on March 21, 2015, 12:55:55 PM
if it is cloudy enough yes it will go to resting. The Kid will need to see more than 10 watts of power before it will stay out of Resting
I tried to read and understand the Kid instructional Manual, it appears I cannot find that says the Kid needs to see more than 10 watts of power before it stay out of "RESTING", is this issues were fully well documented in the manual so users like me will be properly guided.?
Am I missing something?
I also have been following this discussion from the beginning and am curious about what kind of panels , batteries , wiring, etc you have.
Solar charge controllers are not 100% efficient. A more sophisticated controller like the MPPT Kid is doing a lot of " thinking" to pick the best voltage point to get the most power out of the panels. There needs to be a certain voltage difference to be able to do this. One major advantage of MPPT controllers is that you can run a higher voltage in to the panels to charge a lower battery voltage - PWM controllers can not do this. Running the higher voltage also lets you use smaller wire size and saves money on copper and also lets you run the input wire longer distances with less voltage drop.
So depending on your solar system setup there may not be advantages of MPPT over PWM controller.
Larry
Thanks Larry for your concern, don't worry I can understand the old and new technology, personally I like the kid and that's the honest truth, since I posted this in the forum thread, I said before it's no longer cost effective on my part making those IDD CALLS, I have to wake up as early as 1:00 to 2:00 in the early morning at times they have to put me on hold my long distance calls. I emailed my concern about the kid and left my contact numbers so Midnite folks can contact me, unfortunately not a single call I got from them. If you were in my shoes how would you feel? That's why I use this medium as means of communication with them. Latest message I got they are refining the firmware of the kid and the timeline I don't know wait till further announcement.
PSP;
I suspect that 10 watts is the idle power of The Kid?
Not sure. I have one but my array is 300 plus watts rating and 10 watts is very small part of that. I am not clear on your setup and that is a critical bit of information for others to truly help you.
Just my theory on this.
I feel for you on the time shift and long distance charges.
Have you considered SKYPE or maybe even IRC as real time options to regular phone calls?
I can't offer much on the time shift.
Best of luck with it.
Tom
PSP ,
yes there were two issues
One the Kid display - guess you, Midnite, and dealer got it all straightened out so it displays. That was possible warranty issue .
The technical operating of it or updates to the manual are best in the forums here. I believe one of the Midnite people asked recently for suggestions to update the Kid Manual so you might like to comment there.
here is the link for that
http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2275.0
Hi psp..,
IMO, you have gotten some very good help and advice here on the Forum.
Believe that the 10-ish watt figure is not the Idle power that the KID consumes, but rather, this is what the KID needs, total, to rum the MPPT Converter. The Converter runs, when an MPPT CC believes, primarily from Input voltage, that it might be able to produce more power than which is required to run the converter.
If, after about one minute, there is a very small of power produced as battery charge current which is below that required to run the Converter, the CC will Rest, waiting for the input power to change enough for it to try again to make some net power (some amount above that required to run the converter).
When MPPT CCs go from Resting or sleeping to running the converter, the wake-up process is usually accompanied by the input Relay clicking.
PLEASE, will you describe the PV array either in terms of PV manufacturer part number, string configuration, the elevation angle of the PVs (for both the PWM and the KID configurations), and your approximate geographic location?
Also what is the nature of the battery for each system that you are comparing?
If most of this information was placed in a Signature, you would not need to type the info again, and again, as additional conversations occur.
My opinions, FWIW. Thanks! Vic
And, there is some discussion regarding the Idle or Tare power consumption early in the history of the KID, here:
http://midnitesolar.com/Forum/index.php?topic=1653.0
Post #5 has measured values done by onanparts.
FWIW, Vic
Quote from: psp300639 on March 23, 2015, 09:49:10 AM
Thanks Larry for your concern, don't worry I can understand the old and new technology, personally I like the kid and that's the honest truth, since I posted this in the forum thread, I said before it's no longer cost effective on my part making those IDD CALLS, I have to wake up as early as 1:00 to 2:00 in the early morning at times they have to put me on hold my long distance calls. I emailed my concern about the kid and left my contact numbers so Midnite folks can contact me, unfortunately not a single call I got from them. If you were in my shoes how would you feel? That's why I use this medium as means of communication with them. Latest message I got they are refining the firmware of the kid and the timeline I don't know wait till further announcement.
Please let me know if there is still unhandled issues. We all have Skype so we are available that way anytime or we can call you if needed. Please let me know what is needed and I will see that some one follows up. This is probably my fault as I thought we where all set now that it was calibrated and working.
Sorry
Ryan
It's been more than 6 weeks since my last post, it appears Midnite folks has released the official firmware version 1797 for the Marine kid. Accordingly the revision includes AGS code, advance lighting controller etc. I'll will definitely update my kid this time. Thanks to Midnite Team. Here's the link http://www.midnitesolar.com/pages/kid/kid_firmware.php?firmwareProduct_ID=4. Well, I'm still having problem sourcing those USB cable.
Got the cable now but have to remove portion of its outer covering plastic, originally it won't fit the Midnite Kid port, anyway here's the cable hopefully it will work. Here's the photo attached for reference.
Quote from: psp300639 on May 09, 2015, 04:12:52 AM
Got the cable now but have to remove portion of its outer covering plastic, originally it won't fit the Midnite Kid port, anyway here's the cable hopefully it will work. Here's the photo attached for reference.
Have the same deal with my Iphone aftermarket cable. The plastic edge bumper on the phone got in the way of the cable plastic end. Just a steady hand and a sharp blade to thin the plastic end of the cable worked well.
Be careful to not go too deep you might clip the conductors they are likely hair fine aluminum.
Quote from: TomW on May 09, 2015, 09:34:42 AM
Quote from: psp300639 on May 09, 2015, 04:12:52 AM
Got the cable now but have to remove portion of its outer covering plastic, originally it won't fit the Midnite Kid port, anyway here's the cable hopefully it will work. Here's the photo attached for reference.
Have the same deal with my Iphone aftermarket cable. The plastic edge bumper on the phone got in the way of the cable plastic end. Just a steady hand and a sharp blade to thin the plastic end of the cable worked well.
Be careful to not go too deep you might clip the conductors they are likely hair fine aluminum.
Actually the cable I use from my old accessories of the Nokia N95 phone, anyway got my Kid updated to version 1797. n.b. Watch carefully the "RFC LED" it will blink every 5 seconds that means it is updating the firmware properly, otherwise repeat again the procedure. Here's the photo attached for reference.
Readings from the Whizbang Jr vis a vis the Trimetric TM2030RV. For information purpose only , I send back my Trimetric to Bogart Engineering for software upgrades to version 2.2 got the unit back last April. By the way both units reconciled,Happy with the results. Photo attached for reference purpose.
Reading from the Whizbang jr. Here's the photo attached for reference.
Last week I took the opportunity to update the Kid to version 1811, it appears it was stable for a while, however this evening, I notice the Kid reported the following data as follows. Photo attached for reference purpose.
Subsequent photo attached for reference purpose.
Last photo taken this evening. I'm surprise why the kid reported this way, it is suppose to be on resting mode since there is no sunlight available. I took those photo around 7:12 in the evening. Sharing my experience with kid.
Did you have any loads on your system ? What happens if you turn on a load - maybe then it will switch from Float .
Larry
Do you have your Float setting at 29.2v?
It almost seems like the is a second charge source to the batteries?
The kid is producing 0.0 amps to the batteries.
Mario