Classic 150 Installed

[keyturbocars]

I'm dead in the water!!    The winds are roaring here now, and it looks like I'll be missing these winds.  

Here's what happened....  

I had the wind turbine shut down (3 phases shorted out) and I had the Classic shut down (breaker to the battery bank off).  There was no external power to the Classsic.  I was working on wiring in a switch where I could manually send 12VDC to the 3 phase SSR.  Again, another fail safe backup in case the Classic was offline for some reason.  Disaster scenario... wind turbine is out of control, I throw the breaker to the Classic and take it off line completely.  Then I manually activate my 3 phase AC SSR dump load.  Then I manually activate my DC dump load (the 2 big green resistors).  And then hoping that all that load would slow the turbine down adequately, I would apply the brake by shorting out the 3 phases.

Anyway, there should have been NO power available to the Classic in any way shape or form, but somehow when I was connecting the control wires to the 3 phase SSR, I had an arc right at the control terminals I was trying to screw on!  What in the world?!?!  I have no idea where the power came from.  The manual circuit that I was wiring in was not energized.  Both ends of the Classic were shut down.  All I can think of is that maybe there was some power in a capacitor in the Classic???  I was NOT expecting any power at those terminals as I was trying to screw them back to the SSR!  The 2 terminals must have shorted out together, but where did the power come from in AUX 1???

I am really frustrated (mostly with myself)!!  All this work and I was being EXTRA CAREFUL in all steps of the way.  I was within minutes of being able to be ready to confidently roll with this latest wind, and now I'm shut down.

I have checked and double checked and AUX 1 is now dead.  The 3 phase SSR that AUX 1 controls appears to be fine.  I apply 12VDC directly to it and it activated as expected.  I also tried to disconnect the wiring from AUX 1 right at the Classic to be able to check voltage output right at the Classic while I had AUX 1 ON.  Nothing.  Dead.  AUX 2 still works normally.  Everything else is working normally on the Classic as far as I can tell.  I thought there was a PTC that was resettable to protect AUX 1 from short circuit?  I'm still very puzzled where the power came from to make that arc in the first place!!

Any ideas on what might have happened???

Edward  

[boB]

I'm not exactly sure what happened Edward, but, the input terminals of the Classic do connect to a fair amount of capacitor storage.
Maybe those caps were charged up ??    But what doesn't make sense is why the positive input of the Classic would be connected
to the Aux terminal block ??

Yes, there is a PTC to limit current coming OUT of the Aux 1 terminal connections and a diode to keep positive voltage from going INTO the Aux 1 positive terminal.

So, I am not understand why Aux 1 may have been hurt.   I can definitely see where sparks could come from if the Classic PV input wire
brushed against a ground connection, but that shouldn't hurt anything.  It is definitely something to wake one up.  This is a good reason
to let the input bleed down for a minute, but you were in a hurry I know.

This is also why we are going to manufacture the  complete Clipper add on, including fail-safe, to make sure that nothing can
go wrong...   go wrong....  go wrong....   go wrong....

Look over your scenario again closely and see what may have happened.  Also, how high of voltage do you think the Classic
was charged up to when this happened ??   How long after that did the sparks occur ??

boB


PS, let me ask this...    Are you using Aux 1's little relay ?   Or are you using Aux 1 to give you 12 to 15 Volts when
Aux 1 is active ?   If you are using it to give you voltage when active, then you should not be able to back drive
it with a positive voltage  (less than 200 Volts or so) externally.

Either way, we'll get you going again.  Contact Ryan if you need an RMA.   OR.....    You're kinda
close...  Maybe this is an excuse for you to bring your Classic over here and we can have lunch
and talk about this face to face.    

boB  (again)

[keyturbocars]

boB,

As far as how high the Classic would have been charged up, I don't think it would have been very high.  I've had the turbine shut down since earlier this morning.  I didn't want to release the turbine today until I was confident I had all my fail safes in place and everything was ready to roll.  I was just putting on the final touch of being able to activate the 3 phase SSR manually.  You know what happened next.

I've been analyzing this over and over in my head.  Here's one additional clue that might play into this.  As I was wiring in the circuit where I could manually apply 12VDC to the 3 phase SSR, I made sure that it was not energized.  The positive wire was not hooked up to power yet and the switch was OFF.  I did have the negative side of the circuit attached to the battery.  Could this have somehow provided a path?  But how... everything was shut down in terms of live power going in/out of the Classic?? 

When the arc occured while I was trying to reattach the control wires to the 3 phase SSR, I could smell something that smelled like "electrical hot".  I thought perhaps it was from the arc.  I immediately stuck my nose on the upper vent of the Classic, and it did have that "hot" smell.  That's when I felt sick to my stomach!  I opened up the Classic and everything looked fine, but that's just the top board.  It did smell like something got hot.  UGH!!  I wish I never tried to put in that additional manual fail safe.   Can't go back now.

I hate these sort of "live and learn" experiences, but I guess God knows I need it somehow!

Edward

[keyturbocars]

PS, let me ask this...    Are you using Aux 1's little relay ?   Or are you using Aux 1 to give you 12 to 15 Volts when
Aux 1 is active ?   If you are using it to give you voltage when active, then you should not be able to back drive
it with a positive voltage  (less than 200 Volts or so) externally.

Either way, we'll get you going again.  Contact Ryan if you need an RMA.   OR.....    You're kinda
close...  Maybe this is an excuse for you to bring your Classic over here and we can have lunch
and talk about this face to face.    

boB  (again)

I had AUX 1 set up to output the 14VDC directly to the control side of the 3 phase SSR.  

Thanks for your help boB!  I don't know what I did wrong.  I was trying to be so careful.  Too bad this didn't happened a week ago.  We were just over on the West side to celebrate my Mom's birthday.  They live near Lake Tapps (sort of half way between Seattle and Tacoma).  This is not the best time for me to take another trip over right now.  

I really would like to understand what happened here, because I'm a "live and learn" sort of person and I don't want to repeat this!  I wish I could set it up like I planned so I could also manually activate my 3 phase SSR.

Edward

[boB]

We'll try to figure out what happened, but for now, let's see if maybe that negative line of Aux 1 is just opened...

See if you can get 14 volts between Aux 1 "HOT" and battery ground.  If so, just use that negative for the time being.

For Aux 1,  since it has the tiny relay contact option, its negative (GND) line goes through
one of the jumpers on the left of the board.

I'm thinking that  the ground trace of Aux 1 has been "opened" from too much current, but that should
not make the rest of the Classic unusable.  Should just need to use another ground connection for Aux 1
in your case.   No more  small relay use, maybe....  But you're not using the relay so it shouldn't matter now.
boB

[keyturbocars]

OK.  I'll check that out boB.  Thanks for the idea.

My wife just called and told me to get the ground beef cooking for dinner.    

I'll try to check that out (and not burn the ground beef).  

Edward

[keyturbocars]

BINGO!  You were right boB.  I just did what you said and AUX 1 is now alive.  The trace must have opened like you said.  I don't understand why it opened. 

I'm going to release the turbine and let it roll now, and also try to not burn the beef (so I don't get burned when my wife gets home)! 

Winds are between 15-20mph now, so I'm comfortable trying it out.

Edward

[keyturbocars]

This is not my day!  Now the Crydom D1D100 100A DC SSR has failed.    

It is "stuck" in the closed position and diverting battery power to the water heater all the time.  I've thrown the breaker on that to stop the continual water heating.  This has NOTHING to do with the Classic.  AUX 2 which controls that DC SSR is working normally.  Regardless of control input on the DC SSR, it's conducting power all the time now.  My water heater diversion load is around 90A, but I can't believe this Crydom which is rated for 100A couldn't handle 90A for the short time it was tested!

Such is life at times.  Oh well, it could always be worse.

Edward

[keyturbocars]

One word to describe the Classic.... AWESOME!



Even though my DC SSR failed, I decided to let 'er roll because I still have my AUX 1 Clipper working.

The winds are not even that strong (20's and gusting to low 30's), and I've seen around 4000W on the Classic so far!  I've never seen so much power from this turbine.  And if you look at the picture, you'll see that 3800W was only around 100V!  I've now set my AUX 1 Clipper to a high of 110V and a low of 108V for now while I go eat dinner!

I was able to experiment some with the AUX 1 settings and tried a high of 80V and a low of 78V.  The Classic and my homemade Clipper kept the input voltage capped nicely at 80V even when the winds were gusting over 30mph.  VERY NICE!

I LIKE IT!!

Edward

[boB]

Not bad for just having hooked it up!

And that turbine is evidently pretty  awesome, too !

Great job !  Made my day !

boB

[keyturbocars]

Thanks boB, and thanks again for your help.

I was happy after seeing what the Classic can do.  And I was also relieved to see that my AC Clipper was going to keep things under control.

I wish that Crydom D1D100 DC SSR didn't fail, but I guess I should know by now if I'm going to play "mad scientist" (as my wife calls me), then I've got to expect some bumps and lumps along the way.  According to the specs, that Crydom 100A DC SSR should have been able to handle it.  I've got a big enough heat sink (weighs almost 8 lbs). 

I wish things always went smoothly and there never were any problems, but that is not the world we live in!  My water heater diversion is offline, and so I'm using up some of the wind power to run some select loads in the house.  The wind started to calm down tonight, but then it picked back up again.  Not real strong winds now, but in the teens and hitting 20's occasionally.  Still some good power to be had.  I need to get to sleep soon, so I wanted to make sure the Classic keeps feeding in the power while I'm snoozing.

Edward 

[boB]

Did you notice the Crydom getting hot while operating ??

boB

[keyturbocars]

boB,

The Crydom DC SSR failed after only a few minutes of actual use, because I was just manually activating AUX 2 testing out my system.

However, after it "stuck" ON, I did just flip the breaker ON at different times to try to use up some of the power by heating water.  I think once I had it ON for maybe 30 minutes continuous, and when I used my laser infrared thermometer to scan different places on the SSR, I was seeing around 120F.  The highest I saw on that Crydom DC SSR was 130F.   

The temps I scanned on my rectifier and Crydom 3 phase SSR were running around 100-115F. 

Seemed reasonable to me.  The big heat sink felt warm, but not really hot to touch, but not really hot.

Edward

[kitestrings]

Edward,

First off, congratrulations!  I applaud your tenacity.

Secondly,  sorry to learn of the failure, but hopefully something positive is learned.  They say the 'pioneers' are somethimes the ones with arrows in their backs.

~kitestrings

[keyturbocars]

Thanks kitestrings.

I plan to contact Crydom and talk with them about this.  Perhaps I just received a defective SSR. 

I hope they are normally more reliable than this!

Edward