What is the status of the Clipper? Is it available now? Do we know an expected list price? Any of the current classic controllers will work with the clipper?
Bump.
I've had a couple of on-grid customers with the typical "Too much PV, not enough battery" problem who also have AGM batteries that are being kept floating All Day Long that periodically see excursions over 60 volts. A Clipper seems like the ideal solution to keep various Other People's Charge Controllers from Doing Bad Things.
The Clipper is still high on the priority list but it will have to wait a bit more. For wind, there are some temporary options that include diversion on the AC side of the turbine's bridge rectifier. Another option is to have a turbine that just doesn't spin fast enough to create dangerous voltages. (XL.1 48 for instance)
Or, a turbine with their own clipper such as the Kestrel 110e. (I think that's the model)...
As for PV and full batteries, diversion works well also. I have thought about using a clipper for PV too, like in very cold and high Voc weather, but if it is needed for that, then the Vmpp may be way higher than 75 or 80% of Voc and you wouldn't get the full array output. i.e., it would be better in that case to connect the modules for a bit lower Voc. (Sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense.)
Hey, I get to use one of these nice smileys !! ;D
boB
This doesn't just happen on cold-panel days, it's also a problem with grid-tie systems that use AGMs. The charge controllers can throw down so much current on some of the larger systems that the inverters can't respond fast enough to consume it all. The AGMs are much more sensitive to being overcharged and the voltage goes sky-high with the least provocation.
We aren't into March or April yet, which are our huge production months. I peak in early April, the system I've been debugging my AC and thermal sensor work on will peak in mid-March.
As for cold, I made 3,550 watts out of a 2,800 watt array a couple days ago. I had snow and ice on my array for a while today, but made it to 3,367 watts. In the summer, things go the other way. I can go for days and days on end without making it to 2,500 watts. It gets hot here. I just wish "hot" would hurry up!
Quote from: tallgirl on February 04, 2011, 10:45:58 PM
I just wish "hot" would hurry up!
Me Too !!!So, on these systems with the AGMs, how large are the battery banks in comparison to the array size ?? A lot of times, tied-up-on-gridders will use large arrays but small (ish) battery banks. This can also be a problem with ripple current (120 Hz) on the DC side some times.
boB
The arrays are entirely too large relative to battery capacity.
I've seen a lot of grid-tied systems where the maximum charging rate is less than C/2 -- typically as small a battery bank as possible. Perhaps one string of L16 or 8D. I worked on a system last summer where they had 12KW DC on the roof and 675Ah for the batteries.
Hey,
do you have some news for us regarding the status of the clipper?
The Circuit boards are in and getting stuffed. Doug has the sheet metal on order i will follow up with him today on that. Should not be long now.
Quote from: Halfcrazy on July 01, 2011, 05:49:33 AM
The Circuit boards are in and getting stuffed. Doug has the sheet metal on order i will follow up with him today on that. Should not be long now.
Ok, you've had a month! J/K, anymore to update us with?
Quote from: Watt on August 02, 2011, 10:51:28 PM
Quote from: Halfcrazy on July 01, 2011, 05:49:33 AM
The Circuit boards are in and getting stuffed. Doug has the sheet metal on order i will follow up with him today on that. Should not be long now.
Ok, you've had a month! J/K, anymore to update us with?
I will find out today what the status is.
Quote from: tallgirl on February 04, 2011, 10:45:58 PM
.....It gets hot here. I just wish "hot" would hurry up!
How about now ? ;D
Just curious how long your days are! ;D Any updates?
Sorry about not getting back here. Everything but the sheet metal is in house our sheet metal shop got behind by about 4-6 weeks. I am told by the shop they will actually punch the metal for these the end of this week or first of next. Then it goes to powder coat for a couple days so with any luck by the end of next week we should have sheet metal back in house and start assembly of the first batch of 12. as soon as we start building those 12 we will order another round of parts to build 100.
I will try to get a few pictures of the Circuit boards being built and add one or two here.
Thanks for the update. For our project that will use 4 Clippers has been on hold awaiting the arrival. Another 10 or so we have used alternative products/designs instead of using Clippers. We would enjoy seeing pictures and also a final picture showing the location for conduit connection locations. There has been some confusion between the old per production layout within the box and what production layout will be.
Sounds like your metal fabricator either needs to expand (resources and equipment) or time to seek another great American source that can be used as backup to fill your needs. Or you may wish to place the 100 order now (awaiting final design/testing approval to be completed) to get it into the que at your metal fabricator moving up the schedule 4-6 weeks. Its been 15 years since being in the sheet metal design business but there is creative scheduling solutions that can take place.
It would make many of us installers very happy to see these soon!
Well we usually work our lead times pretty good with our supplier but we have overwhelmed his shop with all our different stuff and when we do something new we can not factor in the lead time like we normally do.
I have a drawing of the Clipper sheet metal that gives KO locations etc here is a link to it http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31975941/3-100-1%20clipper%20chassis%20new%20REV%20P2.pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/31975941/3-100-1%20clipper%20chassis%20new%20REV%20P2.pdf)
There appears to be some confusion within this drawing. Is the unit reversed top to bottom as shown in the 3D isometric view? Is the module on the left and the dump load on the right hand side?
Thanks
It is all the same box. The surface with the 4 KO's has 1 large vent hole is the bottom that directly lines up with one of the 2 large vent holes on the top. The view is just transparent so you can see the relation ship between top and bottom.
Clippers and Bergey Boxes are definitely starting to happen !!
boB
PS... I stand corrected. Those ARE Bergey boxes (turbine interface, rectifier, brakes)
Clippers will be done next week I think.
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Hey I see Bergey Boxes this is progress.
The Bergey Box contains a 3 phase breaker for over current protection as well as a stop switch. It also houses the rectifier. This was designed to work with the Classic and Bergey XL1. It will be available with different amperage breakers for other turbines as well and will probably have a different name than the Bergey Box. This is the project that was just ahead of the Clipper. With any luck we can see a picture of 12 Clippers on that table next week.
Thanks Ryan and boB for all the info.
I know this is probably pushing my luck with as many variables as there is but will there be a reference matrix chart available to size (correctly the first time) the various forms of the Clipper? As we all know there is many different wind generators that produce either DC or AC at various voltages and amperages. Must not forget the overall maximum peak power production that can be obtained. This also can be problematic as "real world" results are inherently variable with wind generators.
Another method I have seen done to stop mismatches is to create a pull down questionaire (that asks one question at a time) on a website to obtain the correct model.
Just a few thoughts. Can't wait for the Clipper to help end some design and installation pain. :)
I am new here.
I have had windpower for a long time.
My story;
http://translate.google.fi/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.poikkis.net%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D5033.0&act=url
I will order 2 units Classic 150 model at once, but I need the clippers to both units.
When is the clipper ready ?
Antero
Finland
I have been in contact to several windpower friends here in Finland and I now have a solution for a "clipper" on my site.
I do understand, that its a very challenging (perhaps even not possible) problem to develope a clipper to suite.. ???
So many variables in every windgenerator etc
I will order my units and tell you how its works here.
Winds are getting higher here !
Good winds.
Antero
Finland
Any news for us?
Maybe a release window?
Well I have some news but........... We have built and tested circuit boards boB seems real happy with them. All the resistors and everything is in house to build these except one key piece................................... SHEET METAL ??? ??? ???
Last I heard Sunday this has not been started and no promise of a delivery date so I truly do not know what to say except sorry for dragging everyone along 2 weeks at a time. I will try to keep this thread updated when there is any sign of progress. I can tell you we are working with a few shops now to try to eliminate this in the future but I have no idea what we are going to do on the Clipper sheet metal. I will talk to Robin today and see if we have a back up plan?
Sorry for the delay
Ryan
Acting as a reminder: Any update to the release of the Clipper? Progress report? Almost a week from another month passing. Thanks
Yeah, we are still limited by the lack of sheet metal right now.
All of our suppliers are booked. This is one reason why some places go to China for this stuff.
We are trying to keep the local companies busy. But looks like they're already busy.
I did hear a rumor last week that the company is starting to work on this metal though.
Sounds like there IS some hope !
boB
That's unfortuate. I used to work for a couple of years for a sheet metal fabricator that could have easily provided the boxes (made boxes for a lighting contractor and many other machinery parts, shipping machines, etc) in the Midwest that folded about 6-7 years ago that could not compete with China. Definitely a higher cost to our jobs, your sales, and our US economy.
Maybe its time to start some in-house sheet metal fabrication as well and put some more to work. ;D
Any chance to pre-order?
Thanks Midnite Solar and keep us posted!
Any status update (Ryan and boB) on the Clipper?
Any update as to the release timeline of the production versions? Is the plan still to release the Clipper version for the Bergey XL1 first?
Would rather see a non-specific version first.
Quote from: windpro on October 30, 2011, 11:28:21 PM
Any status update (Ryan and boB) on the Clipper?
Any update as to the release timeline of the production versions? Is the plan still to release the Clipper version for the Bergey XL1 first?
Would rather see a non-specific version first.
I meant to take pictures to upload here to show that we are FINALLY assembling the first ones into the sheet metal !! Yeaaaaahhhh !!!
They are really looking good !
Should have more on this in the next day or two.
boB
Another week has passed. Any further update? Thanks
Quote from: windpro on November 06, 2011, 11:23:15 PM
Another week has passed. Any further update? Thanks
Yes sir-eee ! There are a 12 being built and assembled right now. Not sure exactly how many of them are spoken for, but
I know we have a lot more metalwork on order and a new PCB coming in. Will post a picture tomorrow and possibly
more info. Ryan may know better than me what the situation is though, and if so he can speak up.
boB
Yes the first 12 are going together now. I think all 12 are spoken for but we have a large batch of sheet metal and circuit boards coming in in 2 weeks or less so the clipper is a reality and will be on the price list finally hopefully today.
Here is a picture from this morning of Matt and Doug (background) building Clippers... There is a PCB you can't see and a fan that hasn't been installed yet.
boB
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I see you still have the Valentines decorations up from when you ordered the sheet metal :o
Hey Ryan, how does this box of stuff compare to the Homebrew clipper that I copied from your design for axial flux turbines? I imagine it doesn't dead short the phases like your design but for something like a Piggot style 10 footer, do you see any real advantage to buying one of these? I don't think my clipper has come on for the last six months or so and has proven itself to protect the controller.
Volvo
The real differences would be Fail safe stand alone over voltage protection that does not need any outside sources to operate, PWM of the 3 phase to slow or stop the turbine no dead shorting. Integrated diversion load with self powered cooling fan. And I am sure I am missing something there as well.
The real advantage would be for someone setting things up the first time around as it has the rectifier and everything in one box.
Ryan
What's the latest?
Updates??
Ballpark price??
Doug and crew has started building the next batch of 24 AC clippers. If this sheet metal all fits and makes them happy we will be ordering in larger production quantity's. The AC clipper info can be found here: http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=320&productCatName=WIND%20PRODUCTS&productCat_ID=25
Ryan